# The alcoholics at the New York Times **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** liquor-alcohol\ **Created:** [November 22, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542 "2023-11-22T17:22:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/41 "2023-11-23T19:37:48Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Actually, a good hostess does his best to make sure there is plenty to go around I applaud the trans inclusion! ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/42 "2023-11-24T01:55:25Z")
Aw thanks, It just rolled right off the tongue and I liked it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/43 "2023-11-24T03:42:44Z")
One bottle per person seems a bit high to me. I’ve never been at a party or a dinner where people drank that much. With one exception - a party my wife and I hosted twenty years ago, where two of my friends, much to our surprise, knocked back the wine like it was going out of style. We went through about three times as much wine that night as we expected. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/44 "2023-11-24T07:25:48Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > Thank you all for the responses. Very insightful. It sounds like while my crew has some company with our “near-teetotaler” status, we are by no means the common case and the _NYT_ recommendation is pretty sound (and in some cases too light 🙂 ). I am not sure that was the consensus. Seems like the “vote” was about 50/50. And IMHo if there is a heavy drinker, everyone else is better off not letting them drink their bootle and half of two other guests bottles. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/45 "2023-11-24T13:03:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And IMHo if there is a heavy drinker, everyone else is better off not letting them drink their bootle and half of two other guests bottles. We have a guest bedroom, a futon in my gf’s office, a couch, and sleeping bags. I’ll pour as much as my guests care to drink, but at some point I’ll delicately request their car keys. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/46 "2023-11-24T13:16:34Z")
It’s apparent that Americans don’t know how to drink. I wouldn’t dream of allowing less than a bottle of wine per person for a long dinner. And everyone will be taking a taxi home. When we got married, we allowed two bottles of wine per person, PLUS prosecco (half bottle per person). We did have left overs, but not as much as you’d think. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/47 "2023-11-24T13:17:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Dinner was at 4pm and people would start drifting off around 8pm. With wine coolers galore (real ones, not malt beverage crap) I’d say a bottle per person was a good rule of thumb with all of the other drinks available. I’d say a better rule of thumb is wine drinkers x 2 Drink that much wine and I’d be drifting off by 8 too. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/48 "2023-11-24T15:37:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > everyone else is better off not letting them drink their bootle Do you let your guests shake their bootle? 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/49 "2023-11-24T15:47:35Z")
This thread reminds me of a party thrown by some old soldiers back in the day > [@](#): > > On Friday night at the City Tavern, located just four blocks from Independence Hall, Washington and members of the [First Troop Philadelphia City Cavalry](https://www.firsttroop.com/history) commenced the celebration. The same guys with whom Washington crossed the Delaware and wintered at Valley Forge drank the bar dry… > > The [bar tab](https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-george-washington-bar-tab-20180222-story.html) was submitted the following day, and it was preposterous. It came out to 89 pounds, 4 shillings, and 2 pence, or what _The_ _Washington Post_ estimates as $15,400 in 21st-century dollars. [Some accounts](http://beerinfo.com/george-washingtons-bar-tab/) suggest the total was as high as $17,523, as it included 45 total gallons of booze: > > - 54 bottles of Madeira wine. > > - 60 bottles of claret. > > - 22 bottles of porter. > > - 12 bottles of beer. > > - 8 bottles of hard cider. > > - 8 bottles of Old Stock, or colonial whiskey. > > - 7 large bowls of spiked punch. > > There were also nine musicians and seven waiters who had 21 additional bottles of wine that the troop paid for. Cigars, candles, and broken wine glasses, decanters, and tumblers were also marked as line items. > > The hangovers were likely plentiful the next morning. In honor of the [Constitution](https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/constitutional-convention/convention-president/) being born on the following Monday — Sept. 17, 1787 — we say cheers to you, George Washington. > **[Home](https://coffeeordie.com/george-washington-epic-bar-tab)** > > Coffee or Die Magazine: Online news and lifestyle magazine for the military, veteran, first responder, and coffee enthusiast communities. ETA: Further googling tells me this was for “55 gentlemen”. > [@](#): > > In all, according to the itemized bill for the evening from the troop’s archives, more than 45 gallons of booze were served to “55 gentlemens,” who also got dinner, fruit, relishes and olives. The nine musicians and seven waiters ran up their own liquor bill (21 additional bottles of wine) that the troop paid for. There was a line item for cigars and candles and another for the broken wine glasses, decanters and tumblers. > **[The bender that began America: Bar tab shows framers celebrated a newly...](https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-george-washington-bar-tab-20180222-story.html)** > > It was a Friday night. And delegate George Washington promptly went on the bender that began America. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/50 "2023-11-24T16:08:04Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It really depends on what the event is. A typical many hours long family thanksgiving I can easily finish a bottle without approaching getting drunk. 5 glasses in a 4 hour period? People think that’s a lot? By the end I would be at or close to .00% BAC. Doubtful. According to the table posted [here](https://www.utc.edu/enrollment-management-and-student-affairs/center-for-wellbeing/alcohol-and-other-drug-education/blood-alcohol-content), a 180 pound man having 5 glasses of wine in a 4-hour period would have a BAC of .104, legally intoxicated in most or all states. And there would be at least subtle impairment i.e. affecting driving or fine motor skills long before you got to that level. It’s amazing to see the amounts of booze (and food) our ancestors were capable of consuming, and they paid the price. Drinking-age adults in the U.S. currently imbibe an average of about 2.3 gallons (measuring absolute alcohol) a year, less than a third of what someone in 1830 drank. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/51 "2023-11-24T16:44:32Z")
1 bottle per person sounds insane to me. I have never been at any kind of party or gathering where people drank _that_ much each. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/52 "2023-11-24T18:08:48Z")
**How many alcoholic drinks did you personally imbibe on Thanksgiving Day 2023** _Poll ([view on site](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/52))_ ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/53 "2023-11-24T18:13:54Z")
My dad used to be the only person who drank a decent amount of wine on Thanksgiving. Some of the rest of us would have a little wine simply because the bottle was out anyway. But my dad’s health is not so great nowadays, and he’s stopped drinking. As a result, we had no wine for Thanksgiving at all this year. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/54 "2023-11-24T18:37:35Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > It really depends on what the event is. A typical many hours long family thanksgiving I can easily finish a bottle without approaching getting drunk. 5 glasses in a 4 hour period? People think that’s a lot? By the end I would be at or close to .00% BAC. > > Doubtful. > > According to the table posted [here](https://www.utc.edu/enrollment-management-and-student-affairs/center-for-wellbeing/alcohol-and-other-drug-education/blood-alcohol-content), a 180 pound man having 5 glasses of wine in a 4-hour period would have a BAC of .104, legally intoxicated in most or all states. And there would be at least subtle impairment i.e. affecting driving or fine motor skills long before you got to that level. > > It’s amazing to see the amounts of booze (and food) our ancestors were capable of consuming, and they paid the price. Drinking-age adults in the U.S. currently imbibe an average of about 2.3 gallons (measuring absolute alcohol) a year, less than a third of what someone in 1830 drank. Not doubtful. Nice that you are assuming I weigh 180. That train left a long time ago. Ok maybe not zero but according to that table I would be under the limit. It’s also not quite that clear cut. That table would be a good rule of thumb to be on the safe side. Stomach contents also play a factor. Your absorption rate is much higher on an empty stomach, much slower filled to your eyes with Thanksgiving Dinner. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/55 "2023-11-24T18:39:32Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > It’s apparent that Americans don’t know how to drink. Watch out for this guy at your party: [![](https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article4242413.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/MAIN-Gerard.jpg) ](https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article4242413.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/MAIN-Gerard.jpg) I think he has Russian citizenship now, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/56 "2023-11-24T20:26:42Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > For a party, I’d much rather have some booze leftover. Yep. There is nothing worse than a party that runs out of hooch. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/57 "2023-11-24T20:38:59Z")
As Slim Dusty sang, 🎶_There is nothing so lonesome, mournful, or drear,_ _As to stand in the bar of a pub with no beer._ 🎶 “Lonesome” being key. The party that runs out of hooch soon runs out of guests. Knowing my family, it would have to be a bottle per person, at a minimum. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/58 "2023-11-24T20:58:26Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > This thread reminds me of a party thrown by some old soldiers back in the day I always thought the popular imagery about George made him too good to be true. Glad to know he could throw a humdinger of a party with the other vets. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/59 "2023-11-24T21:52:51Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > We have a guest bedroom, a futon in my gf’s office, a couch, and sleeping bags. I’ll pour as much as my guests care to drink, but at some point I’ll delicately request their car keys. Well, thats good, but when they refuse? Or when they drunkenly assault someone? Or just vomit all over your carpet? Getting drunk is a Bad Thing,. and should be prevented. > [@SanVito](#): > > It’s apparent that Americans don’t know how to drink. Americans?? [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholism-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholism-by-country) We are only #7 of Top 10 Countries with the Highest Rates of Alcohol Use Disorder/Alcoholism (both genders). Drunk driving fatalities- South Africa and Canada beat us, Australia and France more or less ties with the USA. You’d think the French would know how to drink, but the drunk driving deaths dont show it. The fact that Canada is #2 concern me. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/60 "2023-11-24T23:01:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Drunk driving fatalities- South Africa and Canada beat us, Given that Canada ranks out of the top 10 in the alcoholism stats you’ve linked to, I think the answer is likely tied to population densities and lack of public transit. Saskatchewan, for example, has about 3% of the country’s population. Saskatchewan also has more roads per capita than any other province. Think about the implications of that for a minute. It paints a picture of low population densities, coupled with long road trips. In addition, in rural areas, there are no trains, or buses, and very few taxi companies, only in the larger towns. All of that is a recipe for lots of people driving home at night, with no options unless you have a designated driver. Saskatchewan may be the extreme case, but there’s lots of other areas in the country with similar low population densities, long roads, and lack of public transit. Just my speculation why Canada is #2 for impaired fatalities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542.md?page=4)