# The alcoholics at the New York Times **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** liquor-alcohol\ **Created:** [November 22, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542 "2023-11-22T17:22:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/61 "2023-11-24T23:02:58Z")
0, but didn’t vote because it’s not a holiday for me. An enjoyable Christmas Day for me will generally involve a couple of glasses of Buck’s Fizz (prosecco and orange juice) with breakfast, maybe a gin and tonic to help with peeling the potatoes for lunch, crack open some champagne around midday to drink while finishing lunch preparations, have a glass of white then a glass of red with the meal, perhaps a French or Irish coffee after, and that takes us to around 3pm when the proper drinking can start. Over the course of around 15 hours I could easily consume the equivalent of 2 or 3 bottles of wine by myself. I’m well aware that’s far from healthy but it’s just once a year, for most of the other 364 days I drink either much more moderately or not at all, with occasional exceptions for special occasions. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/62 "2023-11-24T23:19:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I always thought the popular imagery about George made him too good to be true. Glad to know he could throw a humdinger of a party with the other vets. Among other things, his plantation operated a whiskey distillery. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/63 "2023-11-24T23:42:21Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > According to the table posted [here](https://www.utc.edu/enrollment-management-and-student-affairs/center-for-wellbeing/alcohol-and-other-drug-education/blood-alcohol-content), a 180 pound man having 5 glasses of wine in a 4-hour period would have a BAC of .104, legally intoxicated in most or all states. And there would be at least subtle impairment i.e. affecting driving or fine motor skills long before you got to that level. One thing I will add on the subject of impairment is something that is true for me and I imagine may well be universal, and that is the nature of “alcohol tolerance”. While some people are physiologically more susceptible to the effects of alcohol than others, I’m talking here about the claim of acquired tolerance. My observation is that it’s better called “limited tolerance”, because acclimatization to alcohol develops resistance in the higher-level cognitive functions much more readily than lower-level physiological functions like alertness and reaction time. IOW, you may feel “not drunk” and be able to carry on a lucid conversation, but your reflexes are probably shot to hell more than you realize. DUI stops are a good illustration. Drivers often sound sober and lucid, and if asked to take a roadside sobriety test, are often all for it. And then they practically fall on their faces when going through the procedure – and seem really surprised by this. A remarkable example was one young lady driver who sounded perfectly sober, but was put through the test because of the smell of alcohol. She was barely of drinking age, but already experienced enough to be able to present as sober even when totally wasted. But she completely failed the physical coordination tests, and ended up being tested at 3x the legal limit. She probably told herself that due to her alcohol tolerance, she was “OK to drive”. This is why I never drive after anything more than one small drink, and preferably nothing at all. My motto is that if you have to ask yourself if you’re OK to drive, then you’re not – or at least, you’re asking someone whose judgment is useless. ---
**Author:** ![Jebbilene](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jebbilene/32/3414_2.png) [@Jebbilene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jebbilene)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/64 "2023-11-25T01:03:35Z")
The table just gives the base BAC for bodyweight vs no. of drinks. Then you subtract 0.015 per hour (some sites say 0.016), so 0.06 after 4 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/65 "2023-11-25T01:26:29Z")
Maybe. But if most of your consumption is toward the middle to end of that four-hour period, the “burn-off” will be less. And there’s still the issue of impairment even below legal limits, even in those who think they’re great at holding their liquor. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/66 "2023-11-25T08:39:02Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Maybe. > > But if most of your consumption is toward the middle to end of that four-hour period, Certainly not “drunk”, but perhaps impaired. People really cant tell that. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2023, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/67 "2023-11-25T09:10:12Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > This is why I never drive after anything more than one small drink, and preferably nothing at all. My motto is that if you have to ask yourself if you’re OK to drive, then you’re not – or at least, you’re asking someone whose judgment is useless. As a lawyer, I’ve “defended” any number of DUIs in court. I put “defended” in scary quotes, because there isn’t really any defense I can put on. If the Intoxilyzer (yes, that’s the name of it) at the police station was working correctly, and has been calibrated correctly, and was operated by a licensed and trained technician, and all of that is given to me in Crown discovery, there’s not much I can do. The best I can do is put on a good sentencing argument, and that’s about it. If you want to decrease the number of drunk drivers, then I’ll be happy to take those who drink and drive to the local courthouse every morning, so they can see what happens to those who are accused of drunk driving, how little they have consumed, and what happens when they are convicted (criminal record, first offense fine is $1000 or more, loss of their license for a year, interlock devices when it is reinstated, etc. etc. etc.) Not to mention the provincial sanctions. There’s a reason why I keep local cab companies in business. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/68 "2023-11-26T12:18:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, thats good, but when they refuse? > > Or when they drunkenly assault someone? > > Or just vomit all over your carpet? > > Getting drunk is a Bad Thing,. and should be prevented. These are my friends who are at my home on my invitation. They would not be welcome in my home if they were going to behave poorly. Getting drunk (IMO) is a fun part of attending a party. That’s why I’m serving my guests alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/69 "2023-11-26T14:59:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Getting drunk is a Bad Thing,. and should be prevented. Without fuller context, that’s just way over-the-top judgmental, IMHO. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Americans?? > [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholism-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholism-by-country) > > We are only #7 of Top 10 Countries with the Highest Rates of Alcohol Use Disorder/Alcoholism (both genders). It was just a light-hearted comment, but if you wanted to dispute it, that wouldn’t be the way. The prevalence of alcohol use disorder is not a valid measure of a nation’s propensity for alcohol. What you want there is a nation’s per-capita alcohol consumption, and among the world’s nations the US ranks 38th. This is from your own link. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The fact that Canada is #2 concern me. Why would it concern you? **[According to this _Forbes_ article](https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2016/08/11/the-worst-countries-in-the-world-for-drunk-driving-infographic/?sh=7b3aeeff2f5c)** the percentage of road accident deaths involving alcohol is almost exactly the same in Canada and the US: 34% and 31%, respectively. It’s South Africa on the high end and countries like UK and Germany on the low end that are the real outliers. And **[according to statistics compiled by the World Health Organization](https://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.A1000?lang=en)**, using the criterion “attribution of road traffic deaths to alcohol”, they list 29.6% for Canada and 29% for the US. Different record-keeping methodologies can easily account for those sorts of differences. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Given that Canada ranks out of the top 10 in the alcoholism stats you’ve linked to … Editing this because I misunderstood your point. Just for added emphasis, Canada is not even close to being on any of the lists of top 10 countries for alcohol use disorder. The top 10 show double-digit percentages of alcoholism; Canada is just 8%. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/70 "2023-11-26T15:02:07Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Canada is not on any of the lists of top 10 countries for alcohol use disorder, and is not even close. The quote says “out of the top ten,” not “in the top ten,” so the poster is saying that Canada is not in the top ten, like you are also saying. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/71 "2023-11-26T15:03:46Z")
Yes, thanks, I noticed my silly blunder and corrected it before I even saw your post! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/72 "2023-11-26T15:04:22Z")
Oops. Sorry for memorializing it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/73 "2023-11-26T20:04:59Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Why would it concern you? Pretty much all my relatives are in Canada. > [@wolfpup](#): > > It was just a light-hearted comment, but if you wanted to dispute it, that wouldn’t be the way. Yeah, I know, but Americans really arent special. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/74 "2023-11-26T20:06:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, I know, but Americans really arent special Them’s fighting words! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/75 "2023-11-26T22:11:42Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > > I always thought the popular imagery about George made him too good to be true. Glad to know he could throw a humdinger of a party with the other vets. > > Among other things, his plantation operated a whiskey distillery. A PBS documentary awhile back on Washington’s early political career included historian Richard Brookhiser reading from a letter the young candidate wrote to his campaign manager when he first ran for the Virginia House of Burgesses, complaining about how expensive it had been. Brookhiser had a barkeep at Colonial Williamsburg pour the equivalent, _per voter_, of the booze which Washington bought. It was about twenty glasses, as I remember - wine, whiskey and port. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/76 "2023-11-26T22:18:00Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > An enjoyable Christmas Day for me will generally involve a couple of glasses of Buck’s Fizz (prosecco and orange juice) with breakfast So, it’s a Mimosa if it’s champagne and Buck’s (?) Fixx if it’s Proseco? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/77 "2023-11-26T23:06:01Z")
That’s the distinction I was going for - I didn’t want to use “mimosa” because that’s champagne, and what we drink isn’t. In practice I think anything goes for Bucks Fizz, we normally buy it premixed in the bottle and actually I suspect Cava is the sparkling wine component. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/78 "2023-11-26T23:17:30Z")
I’d never heard of it, but now I know! ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/79 "2023-11-27T00:29:48Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Something like three quarters of my friends drink no alcohol, and my extended family is made up of light social drinkers (the two that weren’t have since died). One or two glasses at most in a social evening, and no one drinks before or during lunch. I’ve had wine sitting in my cupboard for up to a year before it occurs to anyone to crack it open. I suppose this is anomalous > [@suranyi](#): > > Not so anomalous. My friends and family are the same. Very few serious drinkers and many who never touch the stuff. Not for any health or moral reasons, they just don’t like it. Just so. My mother hosted Thanksgiving this year, and sat nine people (mostly in their late 70s or early 80s; my sister and I, in our mid-50s, represented the youngsters). About halfway through the meal, my mother realized she hadn’t opened the wine. No one had noticed, or wanted any when she offered. For myself, I’m in @suranyi’s friends camp - I don’t drink simply because I don’t care for the taste of alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/80 "2023-11-27T02:56:01Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > Well, thats good, but when they refuse? > > > > Or when they drunkenly assault someone? > > > > Or just vomit all over your carpet? > > > > Getting drunk is a Bad Thing,. and should be prevented. > > These are my friends who are at my home on my invitation. They would not be welcome in my home if they were going to behave poorly. > > Getting drunk (IMO) is a fun part of attending a party. That’s why I’m serving my guests alcohol. Also I assumed this was a dinner party for adults, not a frat party. But one bottle per person sounds like a good rule of thumb to me. My wife and I will usually split a bottle with dinner (when we go out to eat…not every dinner). So I think it’s reasonable to expect that there will be some wine left over. Maybe a few unopened bottles (I assume everyone doesn’t get their own individual bottle). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542.md?page=5)