# The "allotment" (community garden?) in British shows **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 17, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452 "2015-07-17T20:55:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/1 "2015-07-17T20:55:09Z")
Some of the British dramas and crime shows have people going off to their “allotment,” which seems to be a place outside of or on the outskirts of small towns where you can have a garden. Are there still a lot of these around? Did they start with the Victory Gardens of WWII or possibly date back to feudal times? Do/did you have one in your family? Who actually owns the land that the allotments are on? Do they get passed down in families (Grandpa’s allotment becomes Dad’s allotment even if he lives down the road), or do they belong to the house (if you sell the house, the next owner gets the allotment)? ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/2 "2015-07-17T21:17:04Z")
American here, with no experience other than what I see on River Cottage shows: it’s a plot of land that you don’t own, but are either granted or rent for the season to grow things on. Hugh F-W wants us to believe that they’ve picked up steam in the last decade as people reclaim wasted urban lots and rekindle their interest in healthy, local, small-footprint eating. Apparently the waiting list to be assigned an allotment in some communities is years long. Not just a British thing, either. The town I just moved away from had several acres beside a park set aside for allotment gardens. Universities often make them available for students, too. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/3 "2015-07-17T22:18:10Z")
They mostly started in Victorian times — if only to encourage workers to use their time off growing vegetables instead of going to the pub next door: but also because many people, being the descendants of soil-tilling peasants mainly, enjoy tilling the soil. Most places have them, although as with school sports grounds, developers more frequently make the owners offers they can’t refuse. It’s basically a field with parallel strips of ground ( somehow I think each strip is meant to be 165 feet long ideally ), with sheds or other facilities added by and owned by each owner, rent typically for a small sum, £20 a year ?, from the local parish, town, district, whatever council; but sometimes from other owners. People mainly grow vegetables, but they can have flowers if they want. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/4 "2015-07-17T22:39:37Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > Not just a British thing, either. The town I just moved away from had several acres beside a park set aside for allotment gardens. Universities often make them available for students, too. We had one when we lived in Princeton, and my wife had one in Vermont before we were married. I wish the Princeton one hadn’t posted signs inviting the local wildlife for dinner, though. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/5 "2015-07-17T22:43:14Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > They mostly started in Victorian times … My father had an allotment when we lived in Leeds between 1947 and 1954. My understanding is that they were particularly encouraged during World War 2, to help fix food shortages then. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/6 "2015-07-17T22:55:48Z")
The nearest allotments to me, in Scotland, are on land owned by the local council (think the smallest unit of government if you want to translate to US terms). They are basically available to rent by any local resident for a peppercorn fee, can’t be used for commercial use (although to be sure there’s plenty bartering going on 😉 ), mostly for vegetables and flowers, and if you’ve got the right gear, chickens too. When I was young the allotments were a bit of an old man’s thing, but that’s not so much the case these days. The waiting list is quite long though, and I’m pretty sure is first-come-first-served, not handed down within a family by right. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/7 "2015-07-17T22:59:34Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > The nearest allotments to me, in Scotland, are on land owned by the local council (think the smallest unit of government if you want to translate to US terms). They are basically available to rent by any local resident for a peppercorn fee, can’t be used for commercial use (although to be sure there’s plenty bartering going on 😉 ), mostly for vegetables and flowers, and if you’ve got the right gear, chickens too. > > When I was young the allotments were a bit of an old man’s thing, but that’s not so much the case these days. The waiting list is quite long though, and I’m pretty sure is first-come-first-served, not handed down within a family by right. It’s exactly the same here in the Midlands town where I live. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/8 "2015-07-17T23:40:45Z")
The Rite Aid here years ago donated to the town a parcel of land that’s adjacent to the store. It’s about 1/2 acre in size, and it’s first come/first served. You can go and grab a little plot, and plant whatever you like (that’s legal). It’s really nice. You’ve got this large Rite Aid, and right next to the drive-thru pharmacy lane, is a section of land filled with vegetables and flowers. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/9 "2015-07-18T00:00:59Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > My father had an allotment when we lived in Leeds between 1947 and 1954. My understanding is that they were particularly encouraged during World War 2, to help fix food shortages then. They also encouraged people to tear up their gardens then — and gardens could be pretty big back then, both in suburban villas and in the countryside attached to cottages — to grow food. No doubt helped quite a bit ( they would have remembered that we were within six weeks of no food at one point in WWI, thanks to the U-Boats ), certainly of more use than smeltering old railings and Crimean War cannon to make Spitfires. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/10 "2015-07-18T00:10:44Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > They also encouraged people to tear up their gardens then — and gardens could be pretty big back then, both in suburban villas and in the countryside attached to cottages — to grow food. For those who don’t know, British usage of “garden” generally means “yard”, front or back. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/11 "2015-07-18T00:22:19Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > For those who don’t know, British usage of “garden” generally means “yard”, front or back. What would the usual US usage of “garden” be? Genuine q. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/12 "2015-07-18T00:27:20Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > What would the usual US usage of “garden” be? Genuine q. Either part of the yard containing flowers, or a public or semi-public area where flowers are grown. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/13 "2015-07-18T01:00:08Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > What would the usual US usage of “garden” be? Genuine q. In the US, “garden” either refers to an area designed to have beds of flowers or vegetables, or it’s part of an older description, i.e., “botanical garden” or “zoological garden”. Mostly , it’s the former, though. What British call a garden (an area of lawn), we call a “yard”. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/14 "2015-07-18T01:53:49Z")
In the shows I watch, the allotment is often the place where a body is discovered or an actual murder committed. I guess that’s not so much the case IRL? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/15 "2015-07-18T02:17:16Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > The nearest allotments to me, in Scotland, are on land owned by the local council (think the smallest unit of government if you want to translate to US terms). They are basically available to rent by any local resident for a peppercorn fee, can’t be used for commercial use (although to be sure there’s plenty bartering going on 😉 ), mostly for vegetables and flowers, and if you’ve got the right gear, chickens too. I understand allotments; we had community gardens in Connecticut, although where my parents live almost everyone has at least an acre of land. But you’re going to have to explain “peppercorn fee.” ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/16 "2015-07-18T02:34:49Z")
**Peppercorn Rent.** Very small amount, a nominal sum of money. Historically one penny or one guinea. I think the original Glasgow leases were for a peppercorn rent. > **[Peppercorn rent](https://stancarey.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/peppercorn-rent/)** > > I saw a curious phrase used in John Clay’s fine biography R. D. Laing: A Divided Self (Hodder & Stoughton, 1996). Laing and colleagues were looking for new premises for their experimental psych… ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/17 "2015-07-18T02:49:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > But you’re going to have to explain “peppercorn fee.” Oh sorry, I thought that that might be a widely understood thing. It’s that there needs to be some consideration for the contract to exist - not necessarily for value, but of value. A peppercorn fee is just a name for a trivial amount. One penny would be enough. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/18 "2015-07-18T02:55:13Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > In the shows I watch, the allotment is often the place where a body is discovered or an actual murder committed. I guess that’s not so much the case IRL? Bloody hell **ThelmaLou** , the allotment is where people are more likely to competitively grow marrows and carrots than hide corpses! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/19 "2015-07-18T03:06:42Z")
For Merkins, a marrow is a squash. Think zucchini only longer. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452/20 "2015-07-18T03:14:03Z")
Also, the murder would have to be done either in the day or the night: during the day people would see you; and very few people in Britain are going to accept a stroll through the allotments at night. We are a very mistrustful people. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-allotment-community-garden-in-british-shows/725452.md?page=2)