# The Alt-Right is Abandonign Trump, and the Left Will Soon Give Him "Strange New Respect" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010 "2017-04-07T21:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/81 "2017-04-12T00:08:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Just because conservatives are finally starting to figure out how much of an idiot is, there’s no reason why liberals would adopt him. Liberals figured out he was an idiot over a year ago. Come on, that’s not fair. Anyone paying attention realized he was an idiot decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/82 "2017-04-13T04:41:18Z")
OP: And I am Marie of Roumania. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/83 "2017-04-13T05:58:29Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Come on, that’s not fair. > > Anyone paying attention realized he was an idiot decades ago. True, but I’m not sure we understood the depth of his idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/84 "2017-04-13T06:07:20Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I confess that sometimes these people make me doubt myself because I absolutely **know** that Trump is totally unfit to shovel shit much less govern my country; I wonder how I can be so assured of that when all those well educated intelligent people assure me that I am wrong. > > \*I can’t cite the source because I’ve forgotten it but I once read that “self-made men were often perfect examples of unskilled workmanship.” The fact that they can’t give you a sensible reason suggests otherwise. It’s not remotely atypical for otherwise intelligent people to have hangups. To want something to be true even when evidence shows it isn’t. To stick with their guns even after making a bad choice. Or to even just be stupid in certain areas, even if they are smart in nearly all the rest. The objective reality shows how bad Trump is in many ways, and it’s not just opinion. He didn’t know how hard being president would be. He has Russia problems with his campaign. (Even if he wasn’t involved, he should have vetted them.) He has clear narcissistic tendencies. He is corrupt and using his political power to make money. He couldn’t even get Congress to replace the ACA. He throws temper tantrums on Twitter. If they can’t give you a sensible reason why this doesn’t matter, it’s because they don’t have one. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/85 "2017-04-13T10:27:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > True, but I’m not sure we understood the depth of his idiocy. Giving him the presidency seems a particularly bold diagnostic technique. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/86 "2017-04-13T11:33:33Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I have no idea why the OP thinks that Trump reorganizing his lackies is going to suddenly result in “the left” giving him new respect. Trump is still a national embarasment who’s trying to destroy a ton of programs that the left (and even ‘the center’) consider important and is encouraging an upswing in bigoted violence. While people are opposed to antisemitism, they’re not ‘pro Jew’ and aren’t going to suddenly support him because he’s got a deeply conservative Jew talking to him. And this leave aside the extreme partisanship people show - you can see on this board where people criticize him for doing things that Obama and Hillary did or supported just because he’s an R instead of a D, shifting his cronies isn’t going to change that. Depends what is meant by “the left”. If Trump genuinely implemented a non-interventionist foreign policy, supported universal healthcare (which he has supported previously) or imposed tarriffs then some Sanders supporters would appreciate that. At the moment he is winning over the establishment GOP & neocons who backed Bush by bombing Syria and supporting NATO. I suppose he might pivot further to the centre with Ivanka & Jared Kushner seemingly having more influence. But can’t see liberals ever embracing him. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/87 "2017-04-13T13:53:27Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Depends what is meant by “the left”. If Trump genuinely implemented a non-interventionist foreign policy, Do you categorize Hillary Clinton and Obama as part of “the left” or not? Because both of them were strongly interventionist in their foreign policy. You might be categorizing them as “center”, which is why I ask. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/88 "2017-04-13T16:18:43Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > If he does so publically, he’s likely in violation of ethic rules. > > [Psychiatrists Reminded To Refrain From Armchair Analysis Of Public Figures : Shots - Health News : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/08/13/489807468/psychiatrists-reminded-to-refrain-from-armchair-analysis-of-public-figures) He does not do so publicly. But way to miss the point. (The point being, anyone with half a brain can see that the man is mentally ill. It’s like saying we should refrain from making assumptions about the guy on the subway who claims to be St. Jerome.) ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/89 "2017-04-13T16:26:36Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I confess that sometimes these people make me doubt myself because I absolutely **know** that Trump is totally unfit to shovel shit much less govern my country; I wonder how I can be so assured of that when all those well educated intelligent people assure me that I am wrong. > > \*I can’t cite the source because I’ve forgotten it but I once read that “self-made men were often perfect examples of unskilled workmanship.” This is simple. You’re sister and her friends have different priorities from you. They sound like upper middle class to rich people. Combine that level of wealth with apathy toward others, a firm belief that you get what you deserve, and the knowledge that you are going to benefit financially from the administration. These people are not going to be negatively affected by Trump’s policies. Jeff Sessions as attorney general doesn’t mean a thing to them. Betsy Devos as education secretary? Big whoop! But they will get tax breaks. So yeah, Trump is great for them. Whenever they say “He’s not Hillary” just substitute in your head “Trump is hurting people I don’t give a fuck about and I’m gonna get more money!”. All will be clear. Don’t lose confidence in your political beliefs. And when confronted with intelligence and success, ask yourself, “Well what are they actually doing with it?”. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/90 "2017-04-13T16:36:51Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Whenever they say “He’s not Hillary” just substitute in your head “Trump is hurting people I don’t give a fuck about and I’m gonna get more money!”. All will be clear. Don’t lose confidence in your political beliefs. And when confronted with intelligence and success, ask yourself, “Well what are they actually doing with it?”. I have no doubt that’s the motive among some, but it doesn’t explain the whole phenomenon to my satisfaction. I know good people, people who care about others, who voted for Trump. I do not for the life of me understand it. It really does feel like liberals and conservatives are experiencing two entirely different versions of reality. Obviously I have my opinions on which of those versions is more accurate, but that’s not really the point I’m trying to make. The point is that I am reasonable person, usually pretty fair in evaluating multiple sides of any argument, and known among my friends for reaching across the aisle… but this is such a no-brainer for me that I am utterly stunned that there are still people defending this man. The level of cognitive dissonance required for people to continue to do so is, quite frankly, terrifying. The fact that we (most of us, regardless of political orientation) have apparently ditched expertise, critical thinking and the scientific method in making political decisions is the scariest thing of all. Maybe I am overreacting when I worry that we’re headed for another dark age, but I’m not sure what else to make of it. _I thought people were smarter than this._ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/91 "2017-04-13T16:45:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Cohn and Kushner may be former Democrats (both are now registered Republicans), but AFAICT neither of them was ever a “liberal Democrat”. They are both typical representatives of the bipartisan “More Money for Rich People” Party. Which, indeed, is the only party that Trump has ever had any real allegiance to. However, this may actually be bad news for the Evangelical Christians and Anti-Abortion zealots. Pro-Business Repubs generally dont care much about those issues. It is\* possible\* the Administration may be moving towards the center, the rarely seen “Socially liberal but fiscally conservative” 'center". ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/92 "2017-04-13T16:52:05Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Well, actually, it _was_ a rational, reasonable post. When those of us on “the Left” call Donald Trump “a sociopath, a narcissist, a huckster, inexperienced at everything, ignorant, prideful, thin-skinned, a believer of the worst and stupidest conspiracy theories on the planet, impulsive and stupid” this isn’t just “the usual rhetoric”. And it isn’t because he’s a “conservative” or even on the political “Right”. Except those of the Left helped put Trump in the Oval Office. They wrote in Bernie, they stayed home, and they bought into and spread Russian/ GOP Anti-Hillary hate propaganda, even long after Bernie had mathematically lost. My FB feed was full of BernieBros spreading the Hate from the GOP even after the Dems Nominated Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/93 "2017-04-13T16:53:37Z")
ETA ref post #91, not 92 just above. If so, they’d be in good company with the last several R administrations who used social conservatism as an electoral platform to garner the votes to win then tacked pretty quickly over to the business side of conservatism to govern. Couple that with a few noisy bits of social conservative red meat thrown to the social conservatives just before the next election and you’ve got a winning playbook. The whole reason Trump won the primary was that he told those social folks that they’d been played for patsies by the last few Rs. Which was true. He then went on to say that he’d be different. Which probably wasn’t – and so far isn’t – true. But it was enough to win in Nov. Helped, as you say in the next post, by unskilled play by the D party and the D electorate. I’m far more concerned about the next guy. The one who’ll point out Trump’s perfidy like all the rest before him and how this new guy will be the true social conservative / far-right leader they’ve been voting for but not getting all these decades. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/94 "2017-04-13T17:06:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, this may actually be bad news for the Evangelical Christians and Anti-Abortion zealots. Pro-Business Repubs generally dont care much about those issues. It is\* possible\* the Administration may be moving towards the center, the rarely seen “Socially liberal but fiscally conservative” 'center". I’m sure they’ll throw some red meat to their base. Should any of the “liberal justices” be replaced by Trump (or pence, for that matter), I am sure one of the litmus tests will be a willingness to throw out roe v. wade, obergefell v. hodges, as well as siding with the religious right on a number of other issues. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/95 "2017-04-13T17:08:09Z")
Trump never had any real allegiance to the Republicans nor the Democrats before them. It’s this fact which is going to make him an interesting President. Not necessarily a good one or a bad one, just an interesting one. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/96 "2017-04-13T17:10:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Should any of the “liberal justices” be replaced by Trump At first, I _really_ read this the wrong way, thus garnering my laugh for the month. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/97 "2017-04-13T17:12:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > …My FB feed was full of BernieBros spreading the Hate from the GOP even after the Dems Nominated Hillary. I read the one about how Hillary had kidnapped one of Bernie’s grandchildren, it was from the news site _NewAmericanNews_. Naturally, I was stunned, shocked and sickened, and tried to subscribe to their website, but could not find it. Sure, Trump looked pretty bad, but vote for somebody who kidnaps kids? [Nofuckingway.com](http://Nofuckingway.com)! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/98 "2017-04-13T17:22:40Z")
Actually, all kidding aside, I can’t resolve that one question: Did it work? How many people supported Bernie? Oodles, lots of them. Millions, sure. One, five, ten? Dunno. Of that, how many would refuse, for whatever reason, to vote for Hillary, the Orange Peril notwithstanding? Dunno. Of that number, how many lived in those crucial states that swung it to Trump? Because all it would have taken is a few hundred thousand out of millions of people. Can I buy that it is all the result of a fiendishly brilliant and subtle plot? Can’t quite get there, it is too many for me, I fold. I think mostly, it was all about weakening and degrading Hillary, and they got really lucky.\* Really\* lucky! Or maybe Satan. Reasoned analysis isn’t much help when the shit gets crazy. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/99 "2017-04-13T18:23:00Z")
Did I exaggerate? A tad. The Left will NEVER love Donald Trump. But the Left will do better under Trump than they expected, and the Right will find itself wondering, “THIS is what we abandoned our principles for?” Jared, Ivanka, Gara Cohn and Dina Powell are currently running the White House. COULD Bannon stage a coup and get Trump’s ear again?Anything’s possible, but something tells me family wins out over ANY outsider, however Svengali-like. Are there any conservatives in that inner circle? Nope. Any longtime Republicans? Nope. WHich means… 1. Ivanka, like most rich Manhattanites, finds social conservatives tacky and embarrassing She’ll want to distance her family from them. She’s already making nice with Planned Parenthood. Bet on Cecile Richards getting her money. And bet on Ivanka hosting some pro-gay tea parties in the White House. 2. Jared and Ivanka HATE that tacky Midwestern Paul Ryan. By contrast they know and like Chuck Schumer- they’ve been to lots of parties with him and have given him loads of money over the years. When Jared puts together a new agenda, who’s he more likely to reach out to? Ryan or his old friend Chuck? I bet on Jared and Chuck hammering out a big infrastructure project that they can both claim credit for. 3. Once Chuck and the Trump White House are on good terms, Chuck will say, "Listen guys, why don’t we avoid all the nastiness next time there’s a Supreme Court nominee? I can name you few judges we Democrats could confirm. Sure, they’d all be pro abortion. Sure they’d all be pro-gay. Sure they’d be liberal 90% of the time. But they’d be Park Avenue guys, Wall Street guys who’d side with big business in the tax and environmental and antitrust cases. Tell the truth- that’s all most Republican Senators care about, isn’t it? I make book Jared goes for it. The next Trump appointee to the Supreme Court will be a Souter- a social liberal who sides with big business in the cases nobody pays attention to. 1. That border wall? Forget it. Jared and Chuck will reach a “compromise” leading to de facto amnesty for most illegals, and vague promises that THIS time we’ll tighten up the border, and THIS time, we’ll really mean it. I’m a traditional religious conservative, so this prognostication disgusts me. But I’m pretty sure it’s going to happen. The Republicans who held their noses and voted for Trump will get NOTHING for abandoning their principles. And liberals will get far more than they had any reason to hope for. No, Berniebots won’t ever love Trump, but in 4 years, I predict they’ll all be saying,“Wow- that wasn’t as bad as we thought.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010/100 "2017-04-13T18:38:10Z")
Trump could definitely end up being “not that bad” for the left. But since ol’ buddy Chuck is not in charge of the Senate, all that other stuff about compromise judges and immigration legislation reads like fevered fantasy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alt-right-is-abandonign-trump-and-the-left-will-soon-give-him-strange-new-respect/784010.md?page=6)