# The Amazing Race 10/9/2011: "Don't Lay Down On Me Now (Indonesia)" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125 "2011-10-09T23:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/41 "2011-10-11T16:56:01Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#): > > Is she asthmatic? I swear I saw someone using an inhaler during week one, but I don’t remember who. Control-freak Cindy. ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/42 "2011-10-11T19:19:04Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Control-freak Cindy. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/43 "2011-10-12T15:04:50Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Also, the one Showgirl who was eliminated tonight mentioned that she was a “single mom” at least 3 or 4 different times just this one episode; Does she feel that she should get some sort of award (or that Phil was going to give her a Non Elimination For Life Pass) for such a rare and noble distinction? > [@jsc1953](#): > > I think Single Mom was speaking in code. She was trying to say “I’d hoped to stay in longer, because I’m a Single Mom AND I REALLY NEED THE MONEY”, but nobody talks about prize money for non-winners. I felt like there was something a little too Toddlers and Tiaras about the fact that they kept showing the kid’s picture, too. And am I misremembering, but did she say something about the daughter being blonde and blue-eyed? (I watched this episode online in the middle of the night when my cold medicine had failed, so it is entirely possible that I misremembered). ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/44 "2011-10-12T15:33:34Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > And it doesn’t really count as an animal task if you can lift your animal and carry it to the destination. 🙂 Although sheep are surprisingly mellow about that, apparently. True, that. A classic animal task, as in the “Don’t pick the --” guideline, is where the Racers have to control, manage, guide, or otherwise rely on the animal. There was a task a while back where the Racers gave a horse a spa treatment (trim hooves, cut mane and tail, comb pelt). Professional horse handlers handled the horses for the Racers. Seriously though. _Carrying_ a sheep? That’s it? Make them herd the sheep. BTW, on my list of Amazing Guidelines, the relevant ones for a Detour are: - Never pick the needle-in-a-haystack / random search task, unless you are so far behind that you need incredible luck to avoid elimination. - Never pick the task where you control an animal, provided you have any skill whatsoever at the other task. This does not apply if TAR staff handles the animal for you. - If the choice is between handling an animal and a random search, you’re screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/45 "2011-10-12T16:28:17Z")
Not sure which pedal they were trying to replace but I was wondering if the guy fixing it knew that the left pedal on all bikes is reverse threaded. Maybe that’s why he struggled. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/46 "2011-10-12T20:47:00Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Not sure which pedal they were trying to replace but I was wondering if the guy fixing it knew that the left pedal on all bikes is reverse threaded. Maybe that’s why he struggled. I noticed they had a camera shot of the pedal falling off. Either it was a pickup shot taken after the fact, the pedal was already loose, or the cameraman got very lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/47 "2011-10-13T21:00:49Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > …, but for one team to just flat-out tell another team the entire answer seems 100% wrong and totally against the spirit of the whole idea of a RACE. I fully disagree – it’s a very good strategic move. I’m in first place. I finish a task and then see the players in last place. My immediate thought is that they’re in last place _for a reason_. If, up to this point, I’ve been able to put such a huge lead on these folks, then these are exactly the players I want to stay in the competition. I’d rather have the stragglers remain in the race at the expense of a likely better team, so if it’s not going to hurt me directly, of course I’m going to be helpful to the poor team in last place. And as an added bonus, if I’m having a problem a couple of legs from now…“Hey, Marcus, remember how we gave you the Buddha hook-up? Howzabout returning the favor, buddy?” And yes, I realize there are valid counterpoints to everything I’ve said – you don’t _know_ you’re in first, you don’t _know_ they’re in last, they were in last because of a bad break and not because they’re a bad team, etc etc. – still, the strategy applies. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/48 "2011-10-13T21:05:00Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > I fully disagree – it’s a very good strategic move. I don’t think he was questioning the strategic element of it, just that it goes against the idea of a race. It’d be like someone running a half-marathon carrying the slowest runner on their back. That’s not how races should be run; you’re penalizing other people for being good. It’s unfair. ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/49 "2011-10-13T23:18:03Z")
There’s always been an element of luck and social play involved. It’s happened that U-turns have been as much socially-based as strategically, for instance. It’s more a competition than a pure footrace. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/50 "2011-10-13T23:24:19Z")
> [@tavalla](#): > > There’s always been an element of luck and social play involved. It’s happened that U-turns have been as much socially-based as strategically, for instance. It’s more a competition than a pure footrace. And many people here derided the U-Turns as well. Just because there’s a history of it doesn’t make them good ideas. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/51 "2011-10-14T08:36:13Z")
I find the “not racelike” arguments uncompelling because TAR has almost nothing to do with racing. It’s all about taxi luck and airport bunching, with little else of relevance going on. The Eco Challenge, now that was a race. This summer’s Expedition Impossible had a bit of a race flavor, but that wasn’t much of a race either. And it was a million times more race-y than TAR. For the marathon analogy, imagine if that marathon involved checkpoints at every mile marker where all racers had to wait until everyone got there and then everyone could start again. That’s what airports do to TAR. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/52 "2011-10-14T08:48:01Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I find the “not racelike” arguments uncompelling because TAR has almost nothing to do with racing. It’s all about taxi luck and airport bunching, with little else of relevance going on. Everything inbetween the bullshit is racing. They race to the bunching points and from them. If they didn’t, they might as well roll dice to see who wins. > [@EllisDee](#): > > I find the “not racelike” arguments uncompelling because TAR has almost nothing to do with racing. It’s all about taxi luck and airport bunching, with little else of relevance going on. There’s a difference between luck and cheating (yes, I realize it isn’t officially cheating since it’s permitted…). At least everyone has the same chance of getting a good or shitty cab driver. When players give the worst teams the answer, they’re actively promoting playing the game poorly. Not only will that lead to less competitive races later, but sets a terrible precedent for future seasons. It’s simply far more unfair than any of the “luck” that’s intrinsic to the show. Fortunately, the team this week was too retarded to make use of it. > [@EllisDee](#): > > For the marathon analogy, imagine if that marathon involved checkpoints at every mile marker where all racers had to wait until everyone got there and then everyone could start again. That’s what airports do to TAR. I’m not saying TAR is perfect–far from it, in fact. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be improved by fixing some of the things wrong with it. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/53 "2011-10-14T13:46:37Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > For the marathon analogy, imagine if that marathon involved checkpoints at every mile marker where all racers had to wait until everyone got there and then everyone could start again. That’s what airports do to TAR. You forgot the step where you shoot the last team to arrive. Up until the final leg, the only thing you have to do is Not Be Last. Very different from a traditional race. I’d say Expedition Impossible had built in bunching as well - no matter how far ahead you were at the end of each leg, the next leg started with the last team starting about 10 minutes after the first. None of the TAR business where you spread them out with the same intervals as they arrived previously. And face it, if it was just a race without bunching, you’d wind up with the lead team hours or days ahead of the last place team. Maybe more fair, but not as good on TV. The whole “always one mistake away from elimination” element makes it a more interesting show. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/54 "2011-10-14T21:29:04Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I’d say Expedition Impossible had built in bunching as well Oh yes, agreed. I characterized it as “This summer’s Expedition Impossible had a bit of a race flavor, but that wasn’t much of a race either.” The race aspect of EI was that teams had to travel miles over rough terrain under their own power multiple times per leg. In TAR teams have to sit in the back of a cab and hope their cabbie doesn’t get lost. Major difference, but the fact that both are chock full of artificial bunching makes them very un-racelike. > [@](#): > > And face it, if it was just a race without bunching, you’d wind up with the lead team hours or days ahead of the last place team. Maybe more fair, but not as good on TV. The whole “always one mistake away from elimination” element makes it a more interesting show. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I’m merely saying it’s not a race, so arguments that something is bad for the show because they aren’t racelike don’t hold much weight with me. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/55 "2011-10-14T21:43:26Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I’m merely saying it’s not a race, so arguments that something is bad for the show because they aren’t racelike don’t hold much weight with me. Amazing **Race**. It’s a race with luck, bunching, and borderline cheating. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/56 "2011-10-14T22:50:18Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Amazing **Race**. You can engage him all you want, of course, but at least to me it’s clear that Ellis Dee is only looking for petty semantic arguements and trying (in a half-assed way) to stir the pot. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/57 "2011-10-14T23:47:32Z")
Between this and the people who choose to spend the first ten posts of these threads pissing and moaning about football, this thread is more complaining than discussion. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/58 "2011-10-14T23:49:43Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Between this and the people who choose to spend the first ten posts of these threads pissing and moaning about football, this thread is more complaining than discussion. I am no longer complaining about football. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/59 "2011-10-14T23:54:03Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Between this and the people who choose to spend the first ten posts of these threads pissing and moaning about football, this thread is more complaining than discussion. The football discussion is traditional (:D) and it’s almost the end of the week, so the actual episode discussion is naturally about played out anyway. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125/60 "2011-10-15T01:08:32Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > You can engage him all you want, of course, but at least to me it’s clear that Ellis Dee is only looking for petty semantic arguements and trying (in a half-assed way) to stir the pot. I’m responding to petty semantic complaints about the show. > [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Amazing **Race**. > > It’s a race with luck, bunching, and borderline cheating. That misses the point as much as the complaints about there not being enough survival on Survivor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-10-9-2011-dont-lay-down-on-me-now-indonesia/599125.md?page=4)