# The Amazing Race, November 18 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 19, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470 "2012-11-19T03:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/61 "2012-11-20T17:56:36Z")
I seems to me, that you really don’t need to know what UTC means. If Moscow is +4, and the time zone next to it is + 6, then they’re 2 hours off. I can’t figure out how they kept getting it wrong. Why did they keep adding 6 to the Moscow time? ---
**Author:** ![TheBoltEater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheBoltEater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoltEater)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/62 "2012-11-20T20:21:28Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > I seems to me, that you really don’t need to know what UTC means. If Moscow is +4, and the time zone next to it is + 6, then they’re 2 hours off. I can’t figure out how they kept getting it wrong. Why did they keep adding 6 to the Moscow time? It’s even dumber than that. How can you see that St. Petersburg is clearly in the _same time zone_ as Moscow and yet keep adding 4 hours to it? Or that Kaliningrad is _one time zone to the WEST_ and keep adding 3 hours to it? Here’s a tip for all future travelers, anywhere in the world - if city A is west of city B, it is not likely to be 3 time zones ahead of city B. When it’s breakfast in New York, it’s hardly ever lunch in LA. And here’s another helpful hint - if you’ve done something 20 times and you keep getting it wrong even though you were _so sure_ you were right the first time, you’re probably missing something. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/63 "2012-11-20T20:46:47Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I don’t know - if I was them, I think I would have tried the Roadblock at least once - spend 5 minutes to see if it’s an easy task, which it certainly could have been. I was hoping they got creamed at the Detour just because I was annoyed they gave up on the Roadblock so easily. I think you might just be looking for a reason to be anoyed with them. If you already know that a task isn’t playing to your strengths, and you don’t _have to_ do it, and by the way, you _do_ have to use your exemption today…why even waste those 5 minutes? ---
**Author:** ![phreesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@phreesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreesh)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/64 "2012-11-20T21:11:39Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > How the hell can you have two broken legs and be walking around? There’s a surprisingly large amount of variation in the term ‘broken’. Very slight cracks can be less painful than a twisted ankle. That said, broken legs can also be much, much, much more painful than a twisted ankle. I wonder what task caused him to break TWO legs? I’m surprised so many teams jumped at the dancing challenge. I would have thought it would be much harder than identifying a bunch of famous Russians. In the end, they all seemed to have a pretty easy time of it, except for team Ja(y)mes, who I suspect would have been terrible at identifying historical figures. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/65 "2012-11-20T21:19:28Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > I think you might just be looking for a reason to be anoyed with them. If you already know that a task isn’t playing to your strengths, and you don’t _have to_ do it, and by the way, you _do_ have to use your exemption today…why even waste those 5 minutes? There was still the Detour to come. I can see **muldoon** ’s point; try the Roadblock once and maybe you blaze through it. If not, use the Express Pass and know that you’ll have to do the Detour. You want to use the Express Pass where it will help the most; either to save the most time (and physical stress) or to keep from being eliminated. The trouble is, you only learn of the tasks one-at-a-time, so you weigh the benefit of using it now against the chance it will be more useful later. The Twinnies could have tried the time zone thing once to find out what they were up against. After all, every now and then there’s a Detour that a team literally can’t do, like synchronized swimming. I just checked the Wikipedia recap of this season, and there’s only been two other mental tasks (the Moscow library and the historical figures at the party). Both of those were Detours and the Twins took the other option. Seems like the Race ought to have physical and mental challenges on the way to declaring a winner. If there’s one that they can’t avoid, perhaps that will be the Twins undoing. In the post-Philimination interviews, has there been any indication of how Abba broke his legs, or what they though of the other teams keeping their found money? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/66 "2012-11-20T21:22:14Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > I think you might just be looking for a reason to be anoyed with them. If you already know that a task isn’t playing to your strengths, and you don’t _have to_ do it, and by the way, you _do_ have to use your exemption today…why even waste those 5 minutes? Because there’s at least 3 teams WAY behind you, and there is another task that you know nothing about right after this one? I honestly can’t imagine not even trying it first, especially since it didn’t involve any long setup, or travel to another location, or anything. Yeah, if it was one of the “Carry all this stuff half a mile to a market, set up an ice cream cart that EXACTLY MATCHES THE EXAMPLE, then sell 50 ice cream cones” tasks, I’d see using the Express Pass immediately. But all they had to do was sit down in the same room, and take a test. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/67 "2012-11-20T23:32:55Z")
> [@TheBoltEater](#): > > Here’s a tip for all future travelers, anywhere in the world - if city A is west of city B, it is not likely to be 3 time zones ahead of city B. Almost anywhere in the world. Due to time zone oddities, the west edge of China is about 1000 miles west of the east border of Bhutan, but is 2 times ahead (that is when it is 6am in that part of Bhutan it is 8am 1000 miles west of there in China). (Not that this is relevant to the puzzle at hand. But having been involved for many years in writing a puzzle game that thousands of smart people play I am not at all surprised when otherwise smart people get caught up on something that should be really obvious.) ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/68 "2012-11-21T00:50:19Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There was still the Detour to come. I can see **muldoon** ’s point; try the Roadblock once and maybe you blaze through it. If not, use the Express Pass and know that you’ll have to do the Detour. > > You want to use the Express Pass where it will help the most; either to save the most time (and physical stress) or to keep from being eliminated. The trouble is, you only learn of the tasks one-at-a-time, so you weigh the benefit of using it now against the chance it will be more useful later. The Twinnies could have tried the time zone thing once to find out what they were up against. After all, every now and then there’s a Detour that a team literally can’t do, like synchronized swimming. > > I just checked the Wikipedia recap of this season, and there’s only been two other mental tasks (the Moscow library and the historical figures at the party). Both of those were Detours and the Twins took the other option. Seems like the Race ought to have physical and mental challenges on the way to declaring a winner. If there’s one that they can’t avoid, perhaps that will be the Twins undoing. > [@muldoonthief](#): > > Because there’s at least 3 teams WAY behind you, and there is another task that you know nothing about right after this one? I honestly can’t imagine not even trying it first, especially since it didn’t involve any long setup, or travel to another location, or anything. > > Yeah, if it was one of the “Carry all this stuff half a mile to a market, set up an ice cream cart that EXACTLY MATCHES THE EXAMPLE, then sell 50 ice cream cones” tasks, I’d see using the Express Pass immediately. But all they had to do was sit down in the same room, and take a test. Fair enough. 🙂 I just figured that, because they know they’re good at physical tasks, and the way they reacted made it clear that they didn’t think whichever one was supposed to do it would be good at this one, where’s the shame. But you are both correct that it could have worked out poorly for them. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/69 "2012-11-21T00:55:54Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > (Not that this is relevant to the puzzle at hand. But having been involved for many years in writing a puzzle game that thousands of smart people play… Ooo. What puzzle game? ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/70 "2012-11-21T01:32:17Z")
[This one](http://www.mouseplanet.com/mouseadventure/) (though I’m not one of the major writers any more, I used to be the only one). And I phrased that inelegantly. A single game is usually 800 people or so, should have said “that thousands of smart people have played”. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoltEater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheBoltEater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoltEater)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/71 "2012-11-21T19:48:00Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Almost anywhere in the world. Due to time zone oddities, the west edge of China is about 1000 miles west of the east border of Bhutan, but is 2 times ahead (that is when it is 6am in that part of Bhutan it is 8am 1000 miles west of there in China). > > (Not that this is relevant to the puzzle at hand. But having been involved for many years in writing a puzzle game that thousands of smart people play I am not at all surprised when otherwise smart people get caught up on something that should be really obvious.) Oh, man, how fun would it have been if they’d only used China instead. Can’t you just see Ryan now? “Beijing is UTC +8, so if it’s noon now it must be 8pm everywhere else in China! Nailed it!.. What? What do you mean that’s wrong? Whatever, I’ll just try the same answer 23 more times before I remember the definition of insanity…” ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/72 "2012-11-21T20:57:36Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > There was actually a lot of direct cross-team aid in roadblocks that I would have thought to be against the rules tonight: Josh basically unlocking Abbie’s locks for her, and Lexi and Jaymes each doing half of the time zone thing. The rule must be just that your TEAMMATE cannot help you, not that NO ONE can help you. Possible Loophole in the rules: Brent helps Abbie as Ryan helps Josh at the same Roadblock. You are not helping your partner. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/73 "2012-11-22T04:54:51Z")
The four hour penalty being assessed the next day made perfect sense to me. Think of it this way: Let’s say it’s 8pm when the four of them hit the mat. Sure, Phil could have made Josh & Brent sit around until midnight and then check them in. But, IIUC, teams start the next leg at the same time that they checked in relative to the other teams. For example, if Team A checks in 30 minutes before Team B, then Team A will start the next leg 30 minutes later. So, it didn’t matter if Phil checked Josh & Brent in at 8pm or made them sit there until midnight. Either way, they’d still be starting out four hours after Abbie and Ryan. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/74 "2012-11-22T07:11:01Z")
> [@](#): > > But, IIUC, teams start the next leg at the same time that they checked in relative to the other teams. For example, if Team A checks in 30 minutes before Team B, then Team A will start the next leg 30 minutes later. > > So, it didn’t matter if Phil checked Josh & Brent in at 8pm or made them sit there until midnight. Either way, they’d still be starting out four hours after Abbie and Ryan. I disagree. Even though it didn’t happen on the episode (so we’ll never really know the true story), the Rockers could have checked-in before the Goat Farmers if the 4 hour penalty was assesed before check-in (like it’s always been). I think the Amazing producers did this to prevent a possible double elimination. Here is my reasoning. Even though again this didn’t happen, it possibly _could have_ happened: If the Rockers had checked in before the Goat Farmers on the last leg, the Goat Farmers would be last and would have to perform the speed bump the next day. The next day The Rockers could have technically finished ahead of the Goat Farmers because of the Speed Bump and 4 hour penalty. If this happened the Goat Farmers would be eliminated for finishing last, and the Rockers would be eliminated for not being able to continue with the missing passport. Either way you slice it, there was some fishy stuff going on. MtM ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/75 "2012-11-22T12:36:14Z")
Except that without the passport they would not be allowed to check in before the Goat Farmers. So, regardless of when the 4-hour penalty was served, the chance for double elimination wouldn’t exist. Either the Rockers would be the last in or they’d have recovered their passport. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/76 "2012-11-22T13:19:19Z")
They did allow the rockers to check in without a passport. ---
**Author:** ![McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a3d4f5/32.png) [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDeath_the_Mad)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/77 "2012-11-22T15:30:23Z")
> [@](#): > > They did allow the rockers to check in without a passport. **EXACTLEY!!!** MtM ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/78 "2012-11-22T15:43:36Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > They did allow the rockers to check in without a passport. Yes, but only after it made them the last place team and only because a passport was not needed to advance to participate in the next leg of the race. For every team that has lost a passport that is how it has worked, it just had a different impact before: You can’t check in with your passport while other teams are still out. All the other teams have now checked in so you can check in without your passport. You are last so you are eliminated. Same thing this time: You can’t check in with your passport while other teams are still out. All the other teams have now checked in so you can check in without your passport. You are last but you haven’t been eliminated because this is a non-elimination leg and can continue playing so long as a passport isn’t necessary. And in the next leg you won’t be able to check in without a passport until all of the other teams have finished, at which time you will be eliminated because it will be an elimination leg. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470/79 "2012-11-22T16:23:58Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > [This one](http://www.mouseplanet.com/mouseadventure/) (though I’m not one of the major writers any more, I used to be the only one). And I phrased that inelegantly. A single game is usually 800 people or so, should have said “that thousands of smart people have played”. I would LOVE that…sorry to derail…carry on [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-amazing-race-november-18/641470.md?page=3)