# The ambushed cops: So, it's all Obama's fault now? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867 "2014-12-22T00:46:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/261 "2014-12-24T17:37:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not allowing handcuffs to be put on pretty much defines “resisting arrest”. And note he’s a huge strong man, a _known violent criminal currently out on bail_.\* > > “You or I” dont have the legal authority to arrest someone in that sitrep. The police had the authority to do so. He resisted. You are saying “resisted” like it is a singular thing that never changes. That there is no gray area or nuance to it or measured response. The second anyone “resists” (which by your definition is pulling your hand away) that’s it, all bets are off and the police can pile on. As for his prior record it seems he was a petty criminal mostly involved in petty crimes. Do we know more about the assault charge? How long ago it happened? The circumstances? Who he assaulted? Does ANY of that matter when he was clearly not being violent towards the police and in fact was holding his hands up? He was selling loose cigarettes and he was not being aggressive. If he went at the police I could see your point. He didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/262 "2014-12-24T17:38:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > …But the police have the power to arrest someone and to use physical force if necessary. You don’t. See the difference? With power comes irresponsibility. Alas. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/263 "2014-12-24T17:43:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Why do you keep omitting the third cause that ME cited? I am just curious. ME said 3 things. You keep mentioning only two. Why? You keep holding on to this minutiae like it means something or makes a difference. It doesn’t change a thing as regards police using excessive force. If you or I did this we’d be up on murder charges. Because the police did it the question becomes were their actions reasonable? That’s it. That they killed Garner is beyond question. You nitpicking which aspect of the factors of his death are listed does not change the fact that police action killed Garner. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/264 "2014-12-24T17:47:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You keep holding on to this minutiae like it means something or makes a difference. Sure it does. See, “prone-positioned to death” just doesn’t ring as well, does it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/265 "2014-12-24T18:11:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > With power comes irresponsibility. Alas. Sometimes the irresponsibility comes first. If you look back on who were the worst bullies in high school, the biggest assholes with the most disturbing obsessions with weapons, what was the most probable career path they chose? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/266 "2014-12-24T18:13:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sure it does. See, “prone-positioned to death” just doesn’t ring as well, does it? It’s called homicide. That’s the fact. Time to let it sink in, son. Your inability to accept that is your own problem, and your acting the fool is a result of that problem. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/267 "2014-12-24T18:28:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sure it does. See, “prone-positioned to death” just doesn’t ring as well, does it? It’s your all-encompassing devotion to your ideological beliefs, and that the “other team” must always, in all circumstances, be wrong, that makes you hang your hat on such trivia. In my opinion, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/268 "2014-12-24T18:31:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s called homicide. “Homicide” does not equal crime. That’s the fact. Time to let it sink in, son. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/269 "2014-12-24T18:32:57Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s your all-encompassing devotion to your ideological beliefs, and that the “other team” must always, in all circumstances, be wrong, that makes you hang your hat on such trivia. In my opinion, anyway. Right back atcha. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/270 "2014-12-24T18:41:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Homicide” does not equal crime. That’s the fact. Your claim is that Garner’s death was \*not \*caused by the cops. The only response a reality-connected person can make is: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/271 "2014-12-24T18:42:07Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/272 "2014-12-24T18:46:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Your claim is that Garner’s death was \*not \*caused by the cops. Wrong. Of course it was caused by the cops. It was an unintentional death, and was not a crime. YOU claim that he was “choked to death”. The only response a reality-connected person can make is: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/273 "2014-12-24T18:51:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Right back atcha. I don’t think so. I saw a video of a man who didn’t have to die. Killed because some overzealous cops piled on him. You are not taking issue with that, just changing the narrative to, “The popular description of the incident is slightly wrong. So, cops justified.” You’re nit-picking because you simply must find fault with the “liberal” side. And I guess you’ve decided that the “liberal” side includes those that find issue with the police crushing the life out of a man. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/274 "2014-12-24T18:54:42Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I don’t think so. I saw a video of a man who didn’t have to die. Killed because some overzealous cops piled on him. You are not taking issue with that, just changing the narrative to, “The popular description of the incident is slightly wrong. So, cops justified.” “Slightly wrong”? They are claiming that he was “Choked to death for selling loose cigarettes”. That’s not slightly wrong. That’s about as wrong as it gets. Yes, the cops were overzealous. (Note: you can be overzealous and justified at the same time). No, it wasn’t a crime. If the protestors were all about overzealousness instead of about charging the cop with murder, I’d be supporting them. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/275 "2014-12-24T18:55:45Z")
Not many people over the age of 11 use “I’m rubber, you’re glue” as an actual argument. Maybe you didn’t learn that growing up in a country where the police were deities, though. You’ve taken so many positions, often contradictory ones, that it’s pretty much impossible to credit you for having one at all. Your anger at the idea that cops can be at fault for anything overpowers any reasoning or moral consideration you might actually be capable of. But that’s how life in a democracy works, and it’s time you grew the fuck up a little and accepted the responsibility that goes along with the privileges. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/276 "2014-12-24T18:56:00Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I don’t think so. I saw a video of a man who didn’t have to die. Killed because some overzealous cops piled on him. I saw a video of a man who didn’t have to die. Died because he resisted arrest. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/277 "2014-12-24T19:04:00Z")
Bend over, son. I have a uniform. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/278 "2014-12-24T19:06:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sure it does. See, “prone-positioned to death” just doesn’t ring as well, does it? This doesn’t matter at all. The cops killed Garner because of the holds/pressure on his neck and chest and the position on the ground they put him in. It doesn’t sound any better or worse if the positioning on the ground is left out. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/279 "2014-12-24T19:07:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I saw a video of a man who didn’t have to die. Died because he resisted arrest. He was killed by the cops. Maybe their actions were justified, but the cops definitely killed Garner – just as if it were a bunch of guys dressed like cops who attacked Garner with identical video. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/280 "2014-12-24T19:10:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not many people over the age of 11 use “I’m rubber, you’re glue” as an actual argument. Maybe you didn’t learn that growing up in a country where the police were deities, though. > > You’ve taken so many positions, often contradictory ones, that it’s pretty much impossible to credit you for having one at all. Your anger at the idea that cops can be at fault for anything overpowers any reasoning or moral consideration you might actually be capable of. But that’s how life in a democracy works, and it’s time you grew the fuck up a little and accepted the responsibility that goes along with the privileges. ISTM you’re being a little unfair to Terr, mon frère. He has acknowledged that in plain English the cops killed him. He has said it was unintentional homicide, but not murder and not a crime. He has agreed they were overzealous. Am I missing something? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867.md?page=15)