# The ambushed cops: So, it's all Obama's fault now? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867 "2014-12-22T00:46:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/321 "2014-12-29T23:26:03Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Bolding mine. Cite for this claim? According to most sources, the majority of his arrests were for selling loosies. _Majority_? Seems so. But : (wiki) “Garner had been arrested by the NYPD thirty times since 1980 on charges such as assault, resisting arrest, and grand larceny” [http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-police-officer-wont-face-criminal-charges-in-eric-garner-death-1417635275?mod=WSJ\_hpp\_LEFTTopStories](http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-police-officer-wont-face-criminal-charges-in-eric-garner-death-1417635275?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories) _He has a criminal record that includes more than 30 arrests dating back to 1980 on charges such as assault, resisting arrest and grand larceny._ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/322 "2014-12-29T23:36:57Z")
Yes, I saw those. Please cite “career violent”. One mention of an assault. Was it more than once? When? What were the circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/323 "2014-12-29T23:52:18Z")
> [@](#): > > …He has a criminal record that includes more than 30 arrests dating back to 1980 on charges such as assault, resisting arrest and grand larceny. (Post shortened because too many words) He was arrested when he was ten years old? Thirty arrests, including grand larceny? What about all the convictions, the time served. Did you leave those out in kindly deference to the deceased? Are there different rules when the cops are dealing with a “career criminal”? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/324 "2014-12-29T23:58:06Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Yes, I saw those. Please cite “career violent”. > One mention of an assault. Was it more than once? When? What were the circumstances? I dont know.:rolleyes: Is “assault” a violent crime? Did he have many, many arrests? Thus, he was a _“known career violent criminal, who was out on bail.”_ One mention? Well, yes, all the crimes were mentioned once. When you list a guys record, you dont do it like Hedley Lamarr: Qualifications? Applicant: Rape, murder, arson, and rape. Hedley Lamarr: You said rape twice. Applicant: I like rape. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/325 "2014-12-30T00:08:00Z")
Thanks for being obtuse. One instance of assault, which you have no information about, should not be enough to brand Garner as “career violent”. When come back, bring facts. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/326 "2014-12-30T00:15:41Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Thanks for being obtuse. One instance of assault, which you have no information about, should not be enough to brand Garner as “career violent”. When come back, bring facts. American History X comes to mind: > [@American History X](#): > > **Derek:** Nah, you didn’t get six years for stealing a TV. Come on. > > **Lamont:** I come out, the police officer grabs my arm. The TV falls on his foot > and breaks it. They said I threw the TV at him. Assault. Six years. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/327 "2014-12-30T00:19:18Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Thanks for being obtuse. One instance of assault, which you have no information about, should not be enough to brand Garner as “career violent”. . I didnt say “career violent”. I said “\*known career violent criminal, who was out on bail.” \* Nor do you have anything to show that it was a single instance of assault. “…more than 30 arrests dating back to 1980 on charges such as assault, resisting arrest and grand larceny.” According to your math that’s only three crimes he was ever arrested for, eh?:dubious: Maybe there was 27 arrests for assault. All we know is 30+ arrests for three listed crimes= assault, resisting arrest and grand larceny. Not one arrest for each. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/328 "2014-12-30T00:19:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I dont know.:rolleyes: Is “assault” a violent crime? Did he have many, many arrests? Thus, he was a _“known career violent criminal, who was out on bail.”_ One mention? Well, yes, all the crimes were mentioned once. When you list a guys record, you dont do it like > > Hedley Lamarr: Qualifications? > Applicant: Rape, murder, arson, and rape. > Hedley Lamarr: You said rape twice. > Applicant: I like rape. How many convictions? I don’t care how many times you were arrested, if you don’t have any convictions you aren’t a career criminal. What was the assault charge? Was he convicted? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/329 "2014-12-30T00:31:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I didnt say “career violent”. I said “\*known career violent criminal, who was out on bail.” \* > > Nor do you have anything to show that it was a single instance of assault. “…more than 30 arrests dating back to 1980 on charges such as assault, resisting arrest and grand larceny.” According to your math that’s only three crimes he was ever arrested for, eh?:dubious: > > Maybe there was 27 arrests for assault. All we know is 30+ arrests for three listed crimes= assault, resisting arrest and grand larceny. Not one arrest for each. :rolleyes: There were absolutely NOT 27 arrests for assault. From that Wiki page: > [@](#): > > An official said the arrests include multiple incidents in which he was arrested for allegedly selling unlicensed cigarettes. Career petty criminal maybe. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/330 "2014-12-30T00:31:22Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > How many convictions? I don’t care how many times you were arrested, if you don’t have any convictions you aren’t a career criminal. What was the assault charge? Was he convicted? No public records on this. I am just citing what others have said. Why not ask them? And who sez " if you don’t have any convictions you aren’t a career criminal" [http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/career-criminal](http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/career-criminal) _a person who earns his income through criminal activities_ There’s little doubt he was currently making a living selling single cigs, which is a criminal activity. And he was out on bail. According to this cite he claimed "_due to the fact that I’m an convicted felon on parole"_ > **[First Police Report On Eric Garner's Death Doesn't Mention Chokehold](https://gothamist.com/news/first-police-report-on-eric-garners-death-doesnt-mention-chokehold)** > > The initial police report on the fatal arrest of Eric Garner in Staten Island last week makes no mention of a chokehold and downplayed the seriousness of Garner's condition. [http://gotnews.com/breaking-nypd-confirms-ericgarner-member-organized-crime-staten-island/](http://gotnews.com/breaking-nypd-confirms-ericgarner-member-organized-crime-staten-island/) _NYPD sources confirm that Eric Garner was a player in an organized crime cigarette smuggling syndicate…_ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/331 "2014-12-30T00:32:57Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Career petty criminal maybe. If that makes you happy. Look, argue with the cites, not me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/332 "2014-12-30T00:41:13Z")
Again, please cite the descriptor “career violent criminal”. That is your description, which I disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/333 "2014-12-30T01:00:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I didnt say “career violent”. I said “\*known career violent criminal, who was out on bail.” \* > > Nor do you have anything to show that it was a single instance of assault. “…more than 30 arrests dating back to 1980 on charges such as assault, resisting arrest and grand larceny.” According to your math that’s only three crimes he was ever arrested for, eh?:dubious: > > Maybe there was 27 arrests for assault. All we know is 30+ arrests for three listed crimes= assault, resisting arrest and grand larceny. Not one arrest for each. :rolleyes: Arrests don’t tell us about criminal behavior. Convictions do. Do you have any data on convictions? Otherwise, this doesn’t tell us if he actually committed any crimes, much less whether he was a “career violent criminal”, however that’s defined. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/334 "2014-12-30T01:31:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Arrests don’t tell us about criminal behavior. Convictions do. Do you have any data on convictions? Otherwise, this doesn’t tell us if he actually committed any crimes, much less whether he was a “career violent criminal”, however that’s defined. A single arrest, maybe even a couple of arrests, might not tell us about criminal behavior. But absent a true conspiracy, 30 arrests do, even if they are just for [desk appearance tickets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desk_appearance_ticket). _Where there’s smoke, there’s fire_, and all that. I’m not seeing or hearing about any NYPD vendetta against Mr. Garner locally. Assuming a few of the officers on scene had time patrolling that neighborhood, Mr. Garner was _probably_ known to some of them, and _probably_ as someone living just barely on the wrong side of the law. Personally, I would have preferred a trial, but given the effort put into an indictment, I doubt that prosecutors would have been pushing too hard in court either. I feel there is a need for a special prosecutor without ties to the police departments when police are accused of crimes. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/335 "2014-12-30T01:50:05Z")
So the police took this fat guy down in a choke hold, causing his death. For selling “loosies” and getting a little loud. It was declared a homicide by the coroner. The grand jury decided to not go to trial. No indictment, no charges. Two cops who had nothing to do with any of it get shot and killed. > [@DrDeth](#): > > No public records on this. I am just citing what others have said. Why not ask them? … > There’s little doubt he was currently making a living selling single cigs, which is a criminal activity. And he was out on bail. … > _NYPD sources confirm that Eric Garner was a player in an organized crime cigarette smuggling syndicate…_ People are getting just a little sick and tired of this “blame the victim” bullshit. YOU made claims, you prove them. “Someone else said” as your cite is bullshit. Now the NYPD’s PBA boss is making threats about “policing with extreme prejudice” or some such bullshit. He should have his ass fired for making threats. Chief Bratton is openly defying HIS boss, the Mayor. He should be fired. **And the PD, at the FUNERAL of their own, instead of showing some fvcking respect for the family, turned it into a goddamned circus.** Someone should tell them about using their uniform and “appearance” of authority to make “statements”. You can be fired for that too. Personally, I think too many of the BAD ones have been protected for too long. If police departments were willing to clean their own house, a lot of things would never have happened, such as the all too frequent killing of unarmed people. We’ve all seen the videos of cops who were clearly batshit crazy, and yet they somehow get to keep their badge AND their GUN. Stop trying to blame the victims all the time, and get off the “comply or die” bullshit. Clean out the bad ones, or fvck off. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/336 "2014-12-30T01:55:57Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Stop trying to blame the victims all the time, and get off the “comply or die” bullshit. Clean out the bad ones, or fvck off. I think that the people with your views should clamor to go to police academies and join the police force. Then you would not be “the bad ones”. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/337 "2014-12-30T02:04:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I think that the people with your views should clamor to go to police academies and join the police force. Then you would not be “the bad ones”. Maybe. Is this a “you can’t speak unless you are one of them” things? TRY HARDER. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/338 "2014-12-30T02:28:55Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Is this a “you can’t speak unless you are one of them” things? TRY HARDER. Paranoid, much? No, it isn’t. But it just doesn’t seem like all these people who criticize cops are very eager to go and become the shining examples that other cops should follow. Strange, isn’t it? Me, I wouldn’t join the police force for any amount of money. It’s a dirty, thankless grind with constant risk to your life. That is why I am thankful there are people out there that do the job, and if I ever interact with them, I try not to make that job any harder. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/339 "2014-12-30T02:55:03Z")
Yeah, well, liberal hypocrisy as a trump card is\*\* Bricker’\*\*s patented _schtick_, and you owe him a nickel. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/340 "2014-12-30T02:56:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Paranoid, much? > > No, it isn’t. But it just doesn’t seem like all these people who criticize cops are very eager to go and become the shining examples that other cops should follow. Strange, isn’t it? > > Me, I wouldn’t join the police force for any amount of money. It’s a dirty, thankless grind with constant risk to your life. That is why I am thankful there are people out there that do the job, and if I ever interact with them, I try not to make that job any harder. Oh gawd. It’s a job. No one is forced to do it. It doesn’t even make the list of Most Dangerous Jobs. Try logging, construction, farming, mining, roofing, commercial fishing, Electrical power line installers and repairers ,pilots, or transportation. Hell, I used to shimmy up poles in the Army occasionally, hanging on with one hand and wrestling an antenna with the other. I didn’t like it, but I didn’t whine about it being dangerous or scary either. It was just part of the work. And yes, I can and will criticize when I see something that keeps happening… the use of excessive force, or the maiming or killing of **unarmed** “suspected perps”. When the hell will it be enough? Constant risk my ass. If you’re that scared, QUIT. I don’t want you running around with a gun if you’re so scared, or so incompetent or badge heavy that any random “routine stop” cold get some other clueless asshole killed. Almost forgot, it’s not MY job to make Barney Fifie’s or Respeck Mah Authoritah Eric Cartman’s job any easier. I may have to follow their lawful orders but that’s as far as it goes. You go kiss their asses for me… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867.md?page=18)