# The ambushed cops: So, it's all Obama's fault now? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 22, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867 "2014-12-22T00:46:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/41 "2014-12-22T17:19:51Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Dont break the law > > Dont resist arrest Don’t be black. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/42 "2014-12-22T17:24:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So he suffered a cardiac arrest as a result of being in a choke hold rather than actually being strangled. Get yourself a cee-gar for that insight. Being 350lbs, having asthma, and having a heart condition also contributed to Garner’s heart attack. But the anti-police lynch mobs can’t be bothered with those details. They hope to Gruberize the public into believing Garner was strangled to death. Obama is still living in his I-don’t-know-the-facts-but-the-police-acted-stupidly fantasy mode that proved so embareassing to Obama during Obama’s 1st term. I guess in Obama’s world, police lives don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/43 "2014-12-22T17:27:00Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > They definitely deserve a lot of blame. Before Holder and Obama began their cynical manipulations it was difficult to find anti-police rhetoric anywhere, particularly on the internet. I thought everyone knew that Obama, Holder, and the Rev Jeremiah Wright all had co-producer credits on N.W.A’s hit single, “Fuck tha Police” in 1988. This story has been well covered on Fox New’s nightly coverage on current affairs in hip hop. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/44 "2014-12-22T17:30:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Besides, if every law was enforced to its fullest, we’d all be in jail. Cops \*do \*have to exercise judgment and self-control in what they investigate and arrest for. So it’s critical that they \*have \*good judgment and self-control. Then vote Libertarian. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/45 "2014-12-22T17:34:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Being 350lbs, having asthma, and having a heart condition also contributed to Garner’s heart attack. But the anti-police lynch mobs can’t be bothered with those details. They hope to Gruberize the public into believing Garner was strangled to death. > > Obama is still living in his I-don’t-know-the-facts-but-the-police-acted-stupidly fantasy mode that proved so embareassing to Obama during Obama’s 1st term. I guess in Obama’s world, police lives don’t matter. He was choked and he died. Choked to death. Over cigarettes. Do you have a cite for Obama stating that the cops’ lives don’t matter, or you just getting unhinged? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/46 "2014-12-22T17:35:59Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > He was choked and he died. Choked to death. He was choked. He died. He was _not_ choked to death. > [@](#): > > Over cigarettes. Over resisting arrest while being morbidly obese and in poor health. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/47 "2014-12-22T17:41:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He was choked. He died. He was _not_ choked to death. > > Over resisting arrest while being morbidly obese and in poor health. We all saw the video. Most of us see nothing in his “resisting” that warranted a choke hold. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/48 "2014-12-22T17:43:46Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Eric Garner died from cardiac arrest. Maybe it’s the repeated lies that police choked Garner to death being made by mob leaders, along with the other anti-police rhetoric, which triggered some assholes to assault police officers for arresting criminals and encouraging another asshole to shoot his girlfriend and then drive to NYC to murder the first cops that he could? I’d love to know what is this anti-cop rhetoric whereof you speak. Considering that it triggered assholes to assault police officers and even led another asshole to attempt a killing spree before taking his own life, the anti-cop rhetoric must have been pretty incendiary. Hopefully, upon reading such rhetoric I myself won’t be gripped with anti-cop homicidal urges, but I’m willing to take the chance. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/49 "2014-12-22T17:59:09Z")
So do we need something better than the current grand jury system? Weren’t both of these cases (Garner and Brown) taken to a grand jury, who weighed the evidence and made the decision to indict or not. Are the sampling methods among jury pools not wide enough? Does the population in general just not really care? Much like the fact that voter turnout is generally low, because most people just don’t really care. Are the prosecutors in police brutality cases not aggressive enough and do they keep evidence away from the jurors that would easily result in an indictment if shown? Or maybe does the media know that these types of cases draw clicks and sell magazines and newspapers, so they publish only the sensational pieces of the cases to create traffic. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/50 "2014-12-22T18:04:59Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So do we need something better than the current grand jury system? > > Weren’t both of these cases (Garner and Brown) taken to a grand jury, who weighed the evidence and made the decision to indict or not. > > Are the prosecutors in police brutality cases not aggressive enough and do they keep evidence away from the jurors that would easily result in an indictment if shown? We need something better. Prosecutors are chummy with cops and are loath to press charges. The Brown grand jury was shown evidence that hurt the prosecution’s case, which is pretty asinine. The trial is for both sides, the grand jury is for the prosecution. What we need to do is take it out of the local prosecutors’ hands. Make a statewide grand jury to hear the evidence in cases where cops kill. Have a state prosecutor with no ties to the local yokels. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/51 "2014-12-22T18:18:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > War? Who is the enemy, Mr. Lynch? Everyone and anyone who does not act like the police are Gods Walking Amongst Mere Mortals. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/52 "2014-12-22T18:46:23Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Being 350lbs, having asthma, and having a heart condition also contributed to Garner’s heart attack. But the anti-police lynch mobs can’t be bothered with those details. They hope to Gruberize the public into believing Garner was strangled to death. No one is denying his size and health problems. But the police actions contributed to his death. Can you admit that according to the medical examiner, in addition to his size and health problems, the pressure on his neck and chest contributed to his death? > [@](#): > > Obama is still living in his I-don’t-know-the-facts-but-the-police-acted-stupidly fantasy mode that proved so embareassing to Obama during Obama’s 1st term. I guess in Obama’s world, police lives don’t matter. You’ve shown know statements by Obama that show this is the case. You are incorrect again, as you usually are about these sorts of things. You’re bad at stuff like truth and facts. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/53 "2014-12-22T19:21:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He was choked. He died. He was _not_ choked to death. The coroner called it homicide. Which of you should we believe? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/54 "2014-12-22T19:21:27Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > So, the police are getting (or always have been) out of control, our grand juries won’t touch them, OK, so a group of random voters, with every bit of evidence at their command, cant find enough evidence to indict- and you think that’s a problem? That means- _there’s not enough evidence to indict._ I mean sure- you have watched a couple 2 minute sound bites, read a biased blog or article or two, and OF COURSE you know more about it that a group of people who have heard days or even weeks of evidence, some of which will never be released to the public.:rolleyes: and the GJ does bring in indictments: > **[Grand jury indicts S.C. cop in death of unarmed man](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/richard-combs-report-grand-jury-indicts-south-carolina-cop-in-death-of-unarmed-black-man/)** > > Richard Combs, a white man who was the police chief in a small South Carolina town, has been charged with murder in the 2011 shooting death of an unarmed black man ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/55 "2014-12-22T19:22:20Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So do we need something better than the current grand jury system? It’s automatic whenever the prosecutor wants it to be. So what good does it do? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/56 "2014-12-22T19:26:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Over resisting arrest while being morbidly obese and in poor health. Why does this matter? Are you suggesting police use of force is calibrated to work on a healthy adult male around 22 years of age and about 175 pounds and six feet tall? In your view it is therefore the fault of the individual the police are arresting if they die because they weren’t robust enough to survive the encounter? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/57 "2014-12-22T19:31:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The coroner called it homicide. Which of you should we believe? The grand jury called it no true bill. Guess whose opinion matters? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/58 "2014-12-22T19:31:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > OK, so a group of random voters, with every bit of evidence at their command, cant find enough evidence to indict- and you think that’s a problem? That means- _there’s not enough evidence to indict._ Would you then suggest that ideally ALL court cases should be like this? Forget the grand juries. No judges. No lawyers (except the one who collected all the evidence). Just empanel a group of citizens, dump every bit of evidence on them and then they will come to the correct conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/59 "2014-12-22T19:32:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Why does this matter? > > Are you suggesting police use of force is calibrated to work on a healthy adult male around 22 years of age and about 175 pounds and six feet tall? In your view it is therefore the fault of the individual the police are arresting if they die because they weren’t robust enough to survive the encounter? It’s the fault of the individual that he decided to pick a fight with the cops. He took his life into his own hands and he paid the consequences of that decision. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867/60 "2014-12-22T19:33:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Would you then suggest that ideally ALL court cases should be like this? Forget the grand juries. No judges. No lawyers (except the one who collected all the evidence). Just empanel a group of citizens, dump every bit of evidence on them and then they will come to the correct conclusion. I would suggest that the answer isn’t “let’s make sure the jury is only allowed to hear evidence that makes the defendant look guilty, is told by the representative of the state what decision to make, and then does as Big Brother has told them to do”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ambushed-cops-so-its-all-obamas-fault-now/707867.md?page=4)