# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2424 "2021-01-09T16:09:07Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Perhaps it is plausible that Honolulu air traffic control could have directed the Japanese attack on 7 Dec? ‘World War II might never have started, had the FAA been defending Pearl Harbor’ [Japan 00, Are You Declaring an Emergency?](http://books.google.com/books?id=AUaOZrMoiJ8C&lpg=PA122&dq=japan%20faa%20pearl%20harbor%20%22flying%20magazine%22&pg=PA122#v=onepage&q=japan%20faa%20pearl%20harbor%20%22flying%20magazine%22&f=false) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2425 "2021-01-09T16:10:49Z")
They disavow Trump; they don’t disavow the movement though. And someone looking at the last 4 weeks understands that anyone who takes his place will be rewarded with elected office, even if it’s not necessarily the presidency. This isn’t going away. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2426 "2021-01-09T16:13:00Z")
Yeah I don’t agree that the Capitol police were directed by Trump to do anything. They probably did sympathize with him on some level and there is absolutely police bias, but I don’t necessarily see the same ‘conspiracy’ that’s being kicked around. The conspiracy is coming from the astroturfers in the republican party, including elected officials. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2427 "2021-01-09T16:16:04Z")
OK but what does the emerging savior represent? The crowd carried a plethora of flags. There were many I did not recognize, but I did see Republic of Texas, Cuba Libre, Confederate, US, Israel, Russia and variations on themes. Trump is a fit for all of them because the Batshit platform is anything and everything simultaneously. Verbal halation. So, how do you follow that? Rubio, Cruz and Pompeo are amateurs at Batshit politics. You need a candidate who has a far away look in their eyes and really believes their own bullshit. Roque del Fuente? Sarah Palin? Lindsey Graham? Mel Gibson? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2428 "2021-01-09T16:26:27Z")
There is no center or direction to the conspiracy. It’s everyone acting individually. Not by direction or interest, just taking action. It’s politics by halation - ie cow pissing on a flat rock. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2429 "2021-01-09T16:26:41Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Lindsey Graham? Nah. Lindsey Graham is filthy _traitor!_ > **[Trump supporters mob Sen. Lindsey Graham at Reagan Airport](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9127551/Trump-supporters-mob-Sen-Lindsey-Graham-Reagan-Airport-DC-call-traitor.html)** > > Sen. Lindsey Graham made enemies with MAGA supporters this week, which he learned firsthand at Reagan Airport on Friday after earlier in the week he finally admitted Biden had won. (Video there worth gloating over.) If you’ve got a tiger by the tail, you’d better not let go. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2430 "2021-01-09T16:28:05Z")
Yes! Filthy traitor who backs all sides of the argument! Excellent candidate ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2431 "2021-01-09T16:28:46Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > OK but what does the emerging savior represent? What Trump only pretended to represent: white Christian nationalism. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2432 "2021-01-09T16:30:43Z")
That’s Palin with Steve Miller for a campaign manager. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2433 "2021-01-09T16:32:43Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > If you’ve got a tiger by the tail, you’d better not let go. From Heaven’s Gate: [Nick Ray](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000620/?ref_=tt_ch): Now, you know that I am not gonna believe that a man can fight a wolf bare-handed. It ain’t possible [Trapper Fred](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0507212/?ref_=tt_ch): Is. [Ella Watson](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001376/?ref_=tt_ch): How? [Trapper Fred](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0507212/?ref_=tt_ch): First, ya let the critter attack ya. [Nick Ray](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000620/?ref_=tt_ch): Attack? [Trapper Fred](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0507212/?ref_=tt_ch): Yessir. You don’t do a thing. You just have to stay real calm. [Nick Ray](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000620/?ref_=tt_ch): Then what? [Trapper Fred](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0507212/?ref_=tt_ch): As soon as that sonofabitch opens his jaws to take your fool head off - you reach right into his mouth, fast as lightning, and grab his tongue. [Nick Ray](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000620/?ref_=tt_ch): Grab his tongue! What in the hell good does that do? [Trapper Fred](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0507212/?ref_=tt_ch): He can’t bite ya if ya got hold of his tongue. [Nick Ray](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000620/?ref_=tt_ch): I don’t see that. [Trapper Fred](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0507212/?ref_=tt_ch): Stick out your tongue, I’ll show ya. [Ella Watson](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001376/?ref_=tt_ch): Come on, Nick. Stick out your tongue. [Nathan D. Champion](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000686/?ref_=tt_ch): Yeah, Nick, show us what ya got in there. [Nick Ray](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000620/?ref_=tt_ch): Aw, hell. Here! [Nick sticks out tongue. Trapper Fred grabs it, immobilizing him. Everyone laughs] [Trapper Fred](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0507212/?ref_=tt_ch): Try to git me, come on! [Nick struggles but he can’t get loose. His eyes tear up. Finally, Trapper Fred lets go] [Nick Ray](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000620/?ref_=tt_ch): Sonofabitch! He was right! What happens when you let go? [Trapper Fred](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0507212/?ref_=tt_ch): He kills ya. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2434 "2021-01-09T16:35:28Z")
People keep thinking that this needs some sort of coordinated action, and then saying that that coordination is not probable. These _are_ Trump supporters. Their allegiance is with authoritarian power, not with the wussy libruls. They were the ones who left the gates unlocked, knowing that there were enemies of democracy on the other side. It’s not a scheme, it’s not a conspiracy, it’s just people doing their individual parts in looking the other way as authoritarians try to take root in our democracy. > [@flurb](#): > > it was completely predictable that allowing a mob into the Capitol would end up with both Sergeants-at-Arms and the Capitol Police Chief out on their asses. And the mob was completely predictable as well. I, as a lowly internet denizen, expected it. I knew what Trump had planned, and I fully expected a large group of idiots to descend on the Capitol. I did _not_ expect them to be successful in breaching it, as I didn’t take into account the police’s feckless and enabling response. And now they are out on their asses, and are no longer responsible for the next attempt. > [@flurb](#): > > But I have a hard time buying that it was a deliberate attempt to support a coup. And I would not say that it was. It was, however, a deliberate act of looking the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2435 "2021-01-09T16:41:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And I would not say that it was. It was, however, a deliberate act of looking the other way. Opening the barriers and sharing selfies is more than looking the other way. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2436 "2021-01-09T16:41:06Z")
And law and order. I do predict that the next authoritarian wannabee is going to be a high profile law enforcement officer. I do have a specific one in mind that I’m keeping my eye on, but there are probably dozens of police chiefs and sheriffs across the country that could fit the bill. They will have the loyalty of law enforcement, a record of keeping “law and order”, no or little actual political history to criticize, be a man “of the people”, and have the ability to organize and direct far better than the outgoing administration ever dreamed. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2437 "2021-01-09T16:42:17Z")
I just read from Washington insiders that they don’t believe Garland will act to prosecute Trump. So yeah, expect to see this shit again. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2438 "2021-01-09T16:44:28Z")
But does that preclude appointing a special counsel to do it for him? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2439 "2021-01-09T16:53:35Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > The idea that there was no orchestrating from higher law enforcement officials to let this coup succeed is ridiculous to me. I strongly disagree, unless you mean it was a subconscious effort to not oppose their “own side”. What possible goal would they have in mind? Surely they didn’t think a rabble of a few thousand amateurs could pull off an effective coup. And they probably knew that their jobs would be forfeit if they failed to contain the mob, or at least kept them out of the capitol. I just don’t see them risking their jobs supporting a pissant coup. I could be wrong, maybe they are that stupid. Or maybe they got some sort of asurement from Trump. Short of that I don’t think it was planned. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2440 "2021-01-09T17:01:43Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I fear speculation about police collusion before a proper (official or journalistic) investigation is going to divert people’s attention from the fact that the President of the United States raised an army to attack Congress\* in order to prevent his opponent from becoming president. To the contrary, the collusion of law enforcement and the hobbling of other security forces, and the fact they were under Trump’s indirect influence or even direct control, is absolutely at the heart of the matter. In themselves, I’m no more scared of a disorganized mob of blustering MAGA crazies than I am of other flavors of terrorist hiding in caves. They will crumble if opposed by professional trained security forces. It becomes truly frightening, it becomes a real coup attempt, precisely when elements in law enforcement and other security forces are _supporting_ the insurrection. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2441 "2021-01-09T17:10:02Z")
Riemann, I believe this is something different - the motives, methods and perpetrators are random. Is it possible for an organized system to defend itself against attacks from random opponents? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2442 "2021-01-09T17:10:22Z")
On this score, I view them as damned if they do and damned if they don’t. The Ultimate Victim (CFSG) wins when his stock goes up, and – paradoxically – seems to win even bigger (with The Worst Elements of Humanity) when his stock is tanking. Anybody ever a fan of the sitcom “Taxi ?” > There was an episode where he reads a review by a pompous critic, and is so incensed that he writes a letter to the newspaper, but his better nature takes over, and he disposes of it. > And Louie takes it out of the trash and sends it to the paper, which makes Bobby both a hero to the theatre world, but an enemy of said critic. And the next night, the critic is attending Bobby’s one man show on Charles Darwin. > He sweats through it, and that night the critic meet him, and lets him read the review. It’s a beautiful review; the kind any actor would want to get. And through the conversation, you find that the critic is genuine; Bobby’s performance was incredible, and it makes the critic believe in Off-Broadway theatre again. > And then, the critic tears it up. > A bad review, he explains, would make Bobby a martyr. A good review would make him a star. But no review at all…would make him disappear as if he’d never been. There **is no** ignoring the CFSG, so – for the time being – we’re stuck with the binary choices referenced above. [Source](https://historiclemo.blogspot.com/2011/05/farewell-bobby-wheeler.html) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2443 "2021-01-09T17:14:58Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > …it was completely predictable that allowing a mob into the Capitol would end up with both Sergeants-at-Arms and the Capitol Police Chief out on their asses. > > This was gross dereliction of duty, inexcusable incompetence and very likely reflects a law enforcement culture that didn’t take _these_ protestors seriously as a threat. But I have a hard time buying that it was a deliberate attempt to support a coup. You seem to be basing your denial of collusion on the fact that it did not appear to be cogently thought through, that it was an _incompetent_ coup attempt, therefore it was not a coup attempt. I think this is dangerously complacent. There is overrepresentation of MAGA sentiments in all law enforcement - and pro-Trump law enforcement live in the same delusional alternate reality as every other Trump supporter. Nobody is suggesting that these people are strategic masterminds. But the “incompetence” narrative is just not sufficient to explain what happened. The circumstantial evidence points strongly to higher level collusion at the planning level. And what we saw with our own eyes suggests that there was also some degree of improvised collusion among some of the LEO who were present. To some in LEO, the attitude is that MAGA protesters are “our” people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=121) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=123)