# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/241 "2020-11-12T15:24:14Z")
Ultimately the real damage trump is doing with his dangerous rhetoric and refusing to concede is not to force a coup, but to incite violence in his crazier followers, similar to this apparently ongoing story with the Governor of my state: > **[Michigan governor kidnap mastermind wanted to execute her on live TV and burn...](https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/michigan-governor-kidnap-mastermind-wanted-to-execute-her-on-live-tv-and-burn-the-state-capitol-report/)** > > On Thursday, the Detroit Free Press reported that the militia ringleader behind the alleged plot to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D-MI) also planned to execute her on live TV — and burn down the state capitol in Lansing with everyone still inside... I tried to link to the original Free Press article, but it was paywalled. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/242 "2020-11-12T15:24:21Z")
I certainly understand the point, but what if this **is** basically ‘just’ the machinations of an evil marketing genius who knows nothing better than he knows reality TV – the only place where he’s consistently made money. What if it really **is** a bad season of “House of Cards,” and his last chance to whip up a narrative **so** rife with intrigue and so positively spellbinding that he walks away with an audience that can’t live with not knowing. It really _does_ have a First Principles component to it: it all must enrich CFSG, personally. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/243 "2020-11-12T15:25:02Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Israel can’t do that now without painting big targets on the Gulf states they just normalized relations with. If that happens, Trump’s legacy loses one of its few diplomatic success stories. Israel is not beholden to Trump’s legacy. Especially when they see it as the farce that it is. I believe Bebe has already called Biden to congratulate him on his win. Also, that UAE deal is with the Saudi aligned states. So few of them would object in a meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/244 "2020-11-12T15:28:44Z")
We have to be careful about assuming that the people enabling Trump have any degree of foresight; they might be thinking of perceived opportunities to impose their worldview and might not be thinking further down the road. I’d say that this is often the case when democracies decline and give way to authoritarianism. That’s what worries me about Republicans enabling Trump now. They might not have the worst of intentions and it might be just to get votes, but think about what kind of voter they’re essentially looking for now; they’re mining for voters who voted for a proto-authoritarian as president. Consider as well how many Republicans initially indicate that they will resist the worst of Trump’s impulses, only to backtrack and give in once it’s clear that Trump will unleash his pack of wolves on them. We’ve seen moderates indicate they would oppose picking a court nominee before the election, but ultimately caving in. We’ve seen ‘concerned’ Republicans critique Trump’s behavior but ultimately walk back those concerns. We’ve seen Republicans now in PA say they’d not consider overturning an election but now they’re openly talking more in line with the Trump campaign talking points. This grand conspiracy against the president, and this need to save the presidency for him, can begin to take on a life of its own. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/245 "2020-11-12T15:29:00Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I see some conservatives comparing this mess to the 2000 election, saying things along the lines of _We indulged your challenges and recounts then; why are you so upset about ours now?_ Because that was a situation with one state (Florida) and an election margin of around 500 votes, not multiple states with margins in the thousands and tens of thousands of votes. Also, in Florida in 2000 the issue was poorly designed ballots (the infamous butterfly ballots) and hanging chads, not specious and made-up claims of alleged fraud with little or no evidence to support these claims. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/246 "2020-11-12T15:32:05Z")
Well, yes, comparing Florida 2000 to Complete Lunacy 2020 is apples to rollercoasters. My point, though, was that Gore was ultimately gracious when it was all over. I suspect Trump may not be. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/247 "2020-11-12T15:41:30Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > We have to be careful about assuming that the people enabling Trump have any degree of foresight… So far we have seen all judges soundly rejecting Trump efforts to throw the election into question. Even the most conservative judges have understood that there are still some standards that simply must be adhered to for the courts to work at all. Hell, the attorneys for Trump were forced to back off when some judges reminded them, obliquely, that their jobs may be on the line if they continued to yank the court around and had better start giving straight answers. I am not saying all these judges make good rulings but apparently there are still lines none of them will cross. That Trump even walked up to that line to test it is appalling and scary all by itself. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/248 "2020-11-12T15:46:54Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > > [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/media/fox-news-newsmax-reliable-sources/index.html) > > > > ### [Trump voters are flocking to a TV channel that claims Biden is not…](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/media/fox-news-newsmax-reliable-sources/index.html) > > > > A version of this article first appeared in the “Reliable Sources” newsletter. This article is worth reading. The channel is called Newsmax TV. DJT won’t have to start his own channel. He can take over/buy this one (if he can get someone to give him the $$). > # Trump voters are flocking to a TV channel that claims Biden is not president-elect > > …President Trump’s fans who don’t think Fox News is right-wing enough have another option on cable and satellite: Newsmax TV. > > And something dramatic has happened in the past week: A big audience has sought out Newsmax TV for the first time. > … > > Over the summer, when I [[Brian Stelter](https://www.cnn.com/profiles/brian-stelter-profile), [CNN Business](https://www.cnn.com/business)] started to keep an eye on Newsmax’s Nielsen ratings, the channel was averaging about 25,000 viewers at any given time – a tiny number by any TV news standard. As the election was approaching, the audience ticked up, but it was still just a fly on the Fox elephant’s back. In the final week of October, Newsmax was averaging just 65,000 viewers at any given time. > > Then came the election. Newsmax averaged 182,000 viewers during the election week that ended on Sunday. And it is growing even more this week. On Monday the channel averaged 347,000 viewers. On Tuesday, 437,000 viewers. Evening shows like “Spicer & Co” and “Greg Kelly Reports” are reaching 700,000 and 800,000 viewers. These shows struggled to hit 100,000 before the election! Something has changed. > > I’m hearing two theories: First, that Fox’s early projection about Biden winning Arizona [enraged](https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/fox_news_betrayal__theres_a_question_hanging_in_the_air.html) Trump loyalists, causing some to flip over to Newsmax, at least temporarily. Second, that Fox’s portrayal of Biden as president-elect is causing even more angst, and sending even more viewers in Newsmax’s direction. > > Also of note: Trump is sharing videos from Newsmax’s coverage, and the Trump campaign is providing guests to the channel… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/249 "2020-11-12T15:50:37Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > He can take over/buy this one Or these wingnuts. > **[Home - Real America's Voice News](https://americasvoice.news/)** > > Real America's Voice News is your one stop news and entertainment network. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/250 "2020-11-12T15:57:54Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > If Bezos put Amazon on strike, the economy would crater in days. That’s real leverage. All the more reason to nationalize it and make striking illegal. > [@Akaj](#): > > Pretty sure you’re kidding here. I think I _may_ be being hyperbolic, but I’m not even sure anymore. > [@Akaj](#): > > but that wouldn’t change the real devastation to people’s portfolios. What people? Not the wealthy elite, not the oligarchs who will be given these industries to run and plunder. We truly are looking at a crisis here, an [Outside Context Problem](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OutsideContextProblem). Our democracy and our social and political systems have never been tested like this before, never been as stressed. To make any assumptions as to how it will all work itself out based on qualitative norms may not be valid. Trump et al are taking a sledgehammer to the foundations of our country, and they don’t care if it ends in ruin and ash, so long as they get to rule it. I _hope_ things work out, I _hope_ that my statements are hyperbolic. But we are truly heading down a path, a new path, with nothing to light or guide our way. We can’t take anything for granted, we can’t assume that the institutions that have preserved our way of life will continue. Civilizations fall, societies crumble. We are not unique or immune. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If they did that and the courts didn’t stop them then this country is done. Rule of law is 100% out the window. Yep. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think this is the opportune time to remind Americans of their Exceptionalism. That’ll put an end to all this fuckery, sharpish. The biggest problem with American exceptionalism is that we do mediocrity poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/251 "2020-11-12T15:59:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’m hearing two theories: First, that Fox’s early projection about Biden winning Arizona [enraged](https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/11/fox_news_betrayal__theres_a_question_hanging_in_the_air.html) Trump loyalists, causing some to flip over to Newsmax, at least temporarily. Second, that Fox’s portrayal of Biden as president-elect is causing even more angst, and sending even more viewers in Newsmax’s direction. It’s like someone listening to the weather report, not liking it and switching stations until they hear someone tell them the weather they want to hear. These people are deranged. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/252 "2020-11-12T16:10:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That Trump even _walked_ up to that line to test it is appalling and scary all by itself. My emphasis. Oozed, not walked. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > These people are deranged. But they vote. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/253 "2020-11-12T16:29:00Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Since when has something being illegal stopped them? All the time. [Trump’s record in federal courts is the worst of any recent president](https://news.yahoo.com/trump-record-federal-courts-worst-105753727.html) Any illegality that they are getting away with is due to Barr preventing DOJ from doing its job. And that ends in January. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/254 "2020-11-12T16:39:31Z")
“Enough to buy the Outer Hebrides.” “Fourteen pounds and sixpence?” Excuse my _Blackadder_ reference. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/255 "2020-11-12T16:43:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > These people are deranged. > > But they vote. They vote when Trump tells them to. My hope is that somehow this works out in a way in which Trump ends up telling his followers not to vote in the future. That would be the best possible outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/256 "2020-11-12T16:46:31Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > > [@k9bfriender](#): > > > > Since when has something being illegal stopped them? > > All the time. > [Trump’s record in federal courts is the worst of any recent president](https://news.yahoo.com/trump-record-federal-courts-worst-105753727.html) > > Any illegality that they are getting away with is due to Barr preventing DOJ from doing its job. And that ends in January. So what stops them from utterly disregarding legality between now and January 20? ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/257 "2020-11-12T16:48:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > All the more reason to nationalize it and make striking illegal. How many people work for Amazon? How are you going to put THAT many people in jail? Jails which are already overcrowded? Not to mention the court calendars. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/258 "2020-11-12T16:48:43Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t know how we get the message across to enough of Trump’s voters that this is not a good thing for the country, You have to realize that they simply DON’T CARE about the country. At least not “your” country. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/259 "2020-11-12T16:49:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Civilizations fall, societies crumble. We are not unique or immune. Too true, too true. Okay @Hari_Seldon, time to set up the Foundation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/260 "2020-11-12T16:49:50Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Israel can’t do that now without painting big targets on the Gulf states they just normalized relations with. If that happens, Trump’s legacy loses one of its few diplomatic success stories. Bibi Netanyahu doesn’t actually care about Trump, as much as they both benefit from their cordial relationship. Bibi’s goal is securing his own position, since he’s in pretty hot water internally at the moment. Putting a permanent end to Iran’s nuclear program is undoubtedly a top priority for him. A nuclear Iran is viewed as an existential threat in Israel, and considering their rhetoric that’s understandable. So if Bibi thought this was his chance to get away with an attack, I’m sure he’d do it, because if successful it would be a huge feather in his cap no matter what the diplomatic ramifications are (and ESPECIALLY if Trump is the one bearing their weight, not Israel). Here’s the thing. Israel did that to Iraq. Iran isn’t stupid. Their nuclear research program is much more dispersed than the Iraqi one was, and undoubtedly hardened against bombs. If a few jet fighters could sneak in and end Iran’s nuclear program, Israel would have taken it out years ago. A decisive strike on Iran’s nuclear program is just not possible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=14)