# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 130
**Author:** ![RyanAdam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@RyanAdam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyanAdam)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2584 "2021-01-10T17:43:13Z")
I was against the first as a typically Lefty useless gesture, and other talk by the Usual Lefty subjects up to this insurrection incitement. Not because as a (generally former) Republican I liked Trump but because failure sets “you can get away with it” precedent far more than non action. Here though there is a chance to succeed and a chance for anti Trump segment of the Party to stick a knife in him. There’s an alignment of interest, and you should work it. But they need to put a Republican as the lead, so the face is not Pelosi. Nothing against her but play it bipartisan. Bring up these images of the screaming injured Cop. Drive it home using Lincoln Project framing and imagery, not Lefty shit. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2585 "2021-01-10T17:51:42Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > There was already a lot of smoke about how Trump’s first impeachment was just Democrats playing political games. They weren’t just playing games, though. What Trump did, blackmailing a foreign leader to assist him in subverting the outcome of a domestic election is, literally (and I use the word in the traditional sense), a textbook example of impeachable behavior. It’s so on the nose as to be darkly comical. At least, it used to be. We now elect “leaders” who _choose_ to not recognize impeachable conduct. Their reason for making such a choice is shameful: They are worried about their political futures. In my opinion, that’s the real problem. They are chosen and elected by a population that likewise does not recognize it. I don’t know how to fix this. I’ve read enough of your posts to suspect you’ll generally agree with what I’ve said. My words are not meant to imply that you yourself didn’t see Trump’s behavior as impeachable last year. I know your point was a broader one. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2586 "2021-01-10T18:00:22Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Which is the problem with the 6 Jan intrusion. They were just good folks who got caught up in the moment. A few bad apples but nothing to see here. Move along. Following your bizarre analogy suggesting that law enforcement collusion on 1/6 is as implausible as American air traffic contollers aiding the Pearl Harbor raid, I honestly have no idea if this is supposed to be a parody of right wing spin or if it’s your own sincerely held view. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2587 "2021-01-10T18:04:30Z")
I think there are two different things being discussed here. In my mind it’s clear that, as a whole, the Capitol Police acted heroically, probably preventing a catastrophic attack on the federal government. But there seems to be more and more evidence that a handful of individuals - perhaps more than a handful - might have been sympathetic to, and even involved in coordinating with, the insurrectionists. I think we absolutely acknowledge and distinguish both. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2588 "2021-01-10T18:09:44Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I don’t know how to fix this. I really don’t know, either – I don’t think anyone truly does. But I know that trying to negotiate with these fuckers, trying to avoid inflaming passions, hasn’t worked. I think that we will have to hope that having the support of 50-55% of the country to do whatever is legally and constitutionally valid in order to vanquish the extremists will suffice. And by that I mean, there will have to be an aggressive law enforcement, national security, and intelligence gathering response. Some groups that are simply described as “far right” will have to be treated like domestic terrorist groups and monitored and disrupted accordingly. I worry about some of what I’m seeing in your home state, too, from people like Brian Boquist. The radicalization of Republican legislatures was a highly disturbing turn of events even long before Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2589 "2021-01-10T18:14:38Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think we absolutely acknowledge and distinguish both. It’s a bit rich for _you_ now to be saying this. Nobody has ever denied that many in the front line of law enforcement that day were caught out in a shitty situation not of their own making and behaved heroically. But you’re the one who, to most people’s bewilderment, expended many paragraphs insisting that there was nothing suspicious, no reason to suspect law enforcement collusion, and that incompetence was sufficient to explain what happened. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2590 "2021-01-10T18:20:45Z")
A brief interjection – a testimony to the resiliency of the _creative_ American spirit – not only _not diminished by_ Wednesday’s events but _inspired by_ them: [NSFW for language] [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/drTQgahLDSI/maxresdefault.jpg "Trial By Combat REMIX - WTFBRAHH") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drTQgahLDSI) ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2591 "2021-01-10T18:21:35Z")
If dems have any hope of winning over the mid ground, and discouraged, republicans, they need to step up and project strength. Charging seditionists with illegal entry is a terrible look, it’s weak and doesn’t align with their stated outrage. Charge every person they can ID as participating in sedition, (they can always drop those charges later if they can’t get traction.) Deny them all bail. Initially, hold them for a while, till things get ‘sorted’. Spend some time striking that patriotic chord heavily, in the process. This is kinda the moment they need to show how serious they are, and it’s not just a return to the same old ‘soft on crime’ Democratic position. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2592 "2021-01-10T18:29:08Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > If dems have any hope of winning over the mid ground, and discouraged, republicans, they need to step up and project strength. Charging seditionists with illegal entry is a terrible look, it’s weak and doesn’t align with their stated outrage. I am naïve, but I actually believe the United States is – was – should be a Nation of Laws. I think these people who seem to hate America should be prosecuted and punished. But I think we need more people on our side. I think the best way to do that is to get ahold of the COVID pandemic. Get everyone vaccinated ASAP; and to stimulate the economy through $2,000 payments (in addition to the $600). Then go to work getting some semblance of universal health care, which would put more money into people’s pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2593 "2021-01-10T18:32:00Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Deny them all bail. That’s up to a judge but I wonder how that works for suspects (almost all of them) who don’t live in the court’s jurisdiction. Do you let them post bail and then return to their cave in Nantahala? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2594 "2021-01-10T18:36:09Z")
The crime was committed in the court’s jurisdiction. That’s all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2595 "2021-01-10T18:36:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > But I think we need more people on our side. I think the best way to do that is to get ahold of the COVID pandemic. Get everyone vaccinated ASAP; and to stimulate the economy through $2,000 payments (in addition to the $600). Then go to work getting some semblance of universal health care, which would put more money into people’s pockets. I think Biden has been signaling that this is the approach he wants to take. Unlike Trump, he doesn’t want the first priority of his administration to be vanquishing his enemies - even if they are also genuine enemies of the nation at large. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2596 "2021-01-10T18:38:15Z")
Yeah, but how does that effect bail requirements? Are they permitted to leave DC until trial? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2597 "2021-01-10T18:41:24Z")
I think I acknowledged already that there’s the possibility of individuals acting on their own – there was always that possibility. As a whole, though, I’ve not seen evidence of anything beyond colossal failure to prepare, which itself demands investigation. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2598 "2021-01-10T18:45:12Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Are they permitted to leave DC until trial? If they are granted bail, maybe. Entirely up to the judge. But IMO the court should deny bail and hold them until the trial(s) are over. However long that takes. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2599 "2021-01-10T18:46:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think I acknowledged already that there’s the possibility of individuals acting on their own – there was always that possibility. As a whole, though, I’ve not seen evidence of anything beyond colossal failure to prepare, which itself demands investigation. I’m sure you have always used a form of words that did not exclude the possibility. But you insisted, contrary to common sense, that circumstantially there was nothing _suspicious_ in how easily this mob overran the Capitol. And you are still prevaricating on that. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2600 "2021-01-10T18:51:56Z")
No, I’m being cautious, which is what I think is called for. I’ll gladly opine without restraint if the facts, which are still flowing in, point in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2601 "2021-01-10T19:13:53Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > They weren’t just playing games, though. What Trump did, blackmailing a foreign leader to assist him in subverting the outcome of a domestic election is, literally (and I use the word in the traditional sense), a textbook example of impeachable behavior. It’s so on the nose as to be darkly comical. At least, it used to be. And the moron did it again with the Secretary of State of Georgia. “Find the votes, I only need 11,870”. And threatened legal repercussions if the SS did not “Find the votes”. Uh, huh. Nothing to see here. This behavior has been Trumps ‘business’ model his entire pathetic life. He doesn’t know what else to do but cheat and threaten. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2602 "2021-01-10T19:16:54Z")
It would be like, if in the weeks before 9-11, there were posts on facebook and twitter from the hijackers and their friends talking about how they were going to hijack planes and fly them into buildings. And then nothing was done about it. 9-11 was an intelligence failure, 1-6 was a basic common sense failure. ---
**Author:** ![RyanAdam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@RyanAdam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyanAdam)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2603 "2021-01-10T19:19:11Z")
I think Arnold’s video comment evoking Kristellnacht [is worth viewing.](https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1348249481284874240?s=20).? Pity he’s not eligible to be President, he represents what a solid Republican party can be, before the neo Confederate traitors took over from within. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=129) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=131)