# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 135
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2684 "2021-01-11T01:06:51Z")
Then put it to a vote and see where the scum stand. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2685 "2021-01-11T01:08:10Z")
Takes 2/3rds ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2686 "2021-01-11T01:10:53Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > doing this right now would make them look **vindictive** The man tried to overthrow your government! It’s not vindictive to punish him. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2687 "2021-01-11T01:26:20Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > t doing this right now would make them look vindictive Right. Don’t make the other party angry. You know, the ones who sent a crowd to try to kill you. Actually doing something about that might make them upset. Best to just pretend it never happened. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2688 "2021-01-11T01:33:36Z")
Post deleted ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2689 "2021-01-11T01:35:42Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > He’s scary but also likely a moron as he wore a face covering but didn’t bring one for Mommy, which gave investigators another way to identify them. The way I heard it he was identified by internet peoples, who also cached his social media before it could be taken down. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2690 "2021-01-11T01:37:07Z")
Aye; the twitter thread that ID’d both ZipTieGuys was linked earlier in the thread, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2691 "2021-01-11T01:42:05Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > > > One is a retired USAF officer and the other (the really scary looking one) is a bartender who took his mommy to the revolution. > > This is so fascinating to me. Absolutely crazy that he brought his mother while trying to look and act like a tough guy who’s gonna make Congress install King Trump. He’s scary but also likely a moron as he wore a face covering but didn’t bring one for Mommy, which gave investigators another way to identify them. This is not to downplay how dangerous guys like this are, but what a moron. The retired USAF guy with zip ties probably thinks he’s a Navy Seal or something. Turns out Mr. Brock did an interview with The New Yorker just the other day: > **[An Air Force Combat Veteran Breached the Senate](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-air-force-combat-veteran-breached-the-senate)** > > The Texas-based pilot was with a group that descended on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office suite. And the Washington Post has more info on him and on Mr. Munchel: > **[Two men who allegedly held zip ties in Capitol during riots being...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/eric-munchel-larry-brock-arrested-capitol-zip-ties/2021/01/10/143b87cc-538f-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html)** > > Eric Munchel, of Tennessee, and Larry Brock, of Texas, are charged with entering restricted grounds and violent entry. They were arrested Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2692 "2021-01-11T01:57:49Z")
Interesting writeup about how mommy’s little flex cuff jerkoff was ID’d. > **[FBI arrests Nashville zip-tie suspect from assault on U.S. Capitol](https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/fbi-arrests-nashville-zip-tie-suspect-from-assault-on-u-s-capitol)** > > A self-described "hidden patriot" from Nashville, outed on social media as a rioter who invaded the U.S. Senate chambers Wednesday with a weapon and zip-tie handcuffs, was arrested Sunday on federal charges, NewsChannel 5 has learned. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2693 "2021-01-11T02:01:04Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > "But does it count for nothing that he was loudly advocating restraint?” That was what the zip-ties were for, I assume? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2694 "2021-01-11T02:04:14Z")
Ah, the ex-s. Always a major source of intel: > [@](#): > > Mr. Brock’s ex-wife contacted the F.B.I. on Friday to say that she recognized him in a photograph taken inside the Capitol building during the riot, according to an F.B.I. affidavit. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2695 "2021-01-11T02:15:41Z")
That sweatshirt was disgusting and despicable and I wouldn’t be against the guy losing a job (or customers, whatever he does) but we can’t start policing the words on people’s shirts. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2696 "2021-01-11T02:23:48Z")
True, but it sure helps to find them. Not many wearing that kind of shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2697 "2021-01-11T02:42:56Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Interesting writeup about how mommy’s little flex cuff jerkoff was ID’d. > [FBI arrests Nashville zip-tie suspect from U.S. Capitol riot](https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/fbi-arrests-nashville-zip-tie-suspect-from-assault-on-u-s-capitol) The best part of that article is this: > [@](#): > > … Munchel’s Facebook page, where his own livestreamed video showed him walking to the Capitol with the same woman and other Trump supporters. > > Along the way, they discussed how they might get inside the legislative building. > > “I think we could get in there some way,” a female voice said. > > “It’s my house, it’s our house – we paid for that,” an unknown man responded. > > “Damn straight,” the woman interjected. > > “It’s the people’s house. We want to go in and be heard,” the man added. “If frickin’ Mitch McConnell can’t speak up for us, I’ll speak up for Republicans.” > > Another man responded, “We’re not asking for permission anymore.” BAM! Conspiracy charges. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2698 "2021-01-11T02:57:17Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > we can’t start policing the words on people’s shirts. Germany does, for good reason. In Germany that would be a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2699 "2021-01-11T03:22:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > “It’s my house, it’s our house – we paid for that,” an unknown man responded. On CNN as the rioters were just getting through the first line of police, before it got really bad, a CNN reporter went up to a guy who proudly gave his name, he was in Bikers for Trump, and that was his line. The reporter immediatley said “Thank you” and walked away. Well sure, it is his House and my House and your House. But that mentality, the reporter coujld have asked him, “So, if a mob came to the headquarters of Bikers for Trump pounding on the doors, you would be OK with just letting them all in”? I’m not criticizing the reporter, I am thankful for him and all the other journalists there. Can you imagine being inside with thousands of violent rioters and filming it? Someone should start a Go Fund Me or something like that campaign, and ask for donations for every single journalist that documented this. They are goddamn national heroes. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2700 "2021-01-11T03:33:56Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Someone should start a Go Fund Me or something like that campaign, and ask for donations for every single journalist that documented this. They are goddamn national heroes. Well, all the best footage came from the perpetrators. It’s like the joke that Hitler wasn’t all bad - after all, he didn’t let Hitler escape alive. I guess I’d be fine with awarding them a joint Pulitzer if it comes with an appropriate prison sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2701 "2021-01-11T03:39:48Z")
I thought y’all would like to see this: [![](https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/abc_010921.jpg) ](https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/abc_010921.jpg) From here: [https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/abc-news-rioting-democracy-011021](https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/abc-news-rioting-democracy-011021) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2702 "2021-01-11T03:43:20Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Charging seditionists with illegal entry is a terrible look, it’s weak and doesn’t align with their stated outrage. > > Charge every person they can ID as participating in sedition, (they can always drop those charges later if they can’t get traction.) Deny them all bail. Initially, hold them for a while, till things get ‘sorted’. > > Spend some time striking that patriotic chord heavily, in the process. I have to disagree. Charging people for political reasons is just as bad as chanting “Lock 'em up!” for political reasons. The criminal law power is one of the most intrusive powers that the government has. It authorises the state to deprive a citizen of the right to liberty. In some countries, the criminal law authorises the state to kill its citizens. Because it is so intrusive, It **has** to be hedged about with all sorts of procedural safeguards, to prevent it from being abused and becoming an instrument of political oppression. One of the most important procedural safeguards is that the police and prosecutor don’t charge unless they have sufficient evidence to meet the test of a “clear likelihood of conviction.” (Phrased in different ways in different jurisdictions, but that’s the test.) Once the police start charging “to send a message, and I don’t care if we have evidence to support it”, it’s just as corrupt as trying to overturn an election because you don’t like the outcome. The criminal charge has to be based on evidence, not to make a political point. That’s one of the cornerstones of the rule of law, which has been taking a beating the past four years. Governments and citizens should be hanging tight to that cornerstone, as one of the key protections for a government of laws, not people. Same with bail. The courts can’t deny bail for political reasons. That’s what courts in tin-pot dictatorships do. The rules of bail are based on things like flight risk, risk of re-offending, and so on. Adding “to send a political message” to the list would be a terrible deviation from the rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2703 "2021-01-11T03:43:40Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Someone should start a Go Fund Me or something like that campaign, and ask for donations for every single journalist that documented this. They are goddamn national heroes. Anyone who can afford to subscribe to another newspaper or investigative news site should do so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=134) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=136)