# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 136
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2704 "2021-01-11T03:44:23Z")
With that kind of poll, it would be helpful also to see if there has been any shift in the percentage of people who identify as Republicans. With normal events you wouldn’t expect that to shift beyond a rounding error, but this is so exceptional. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2705 "2021-01-11T03:46:49Z")
That’s a great idea but I think we’ll need to wait more than 5 days to see how that really shakes out. I agree it would be interesting to see just how abrupt and/or dramatic the shift is immediately afterward, I just think it will be a fraction of the eventual outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2706 "2021-01-11T03:50:34Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Unlike Trump, he doesn’t want the first priority of his administration to be vanquishing his enemies - even if they are also genuine enemies of the nation at large. Flip that around: Biden is going to swear on a Bible that he “will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States” (Article II, Section 1, Clause 8). Part of his duty as President is to “take care that the laws be faithfully executed” (Article II, Section 3, Clause 5). If the seditionists are the genuine enemies of the nation, and have taken actions to subvert the Constitution of the United States, doesn’t Biden have a constitutional obligation to have them investigated, and prosecuted if the evidence supports a charge? Is it consistent with his oath and duties to say “Meh, I’ve got more important things to do - gotta get that infrastructure bill through Congress, and going after people who have tried to subvert the Constitution might make that politically difficult.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2707 "2021-01-11T03:51:22Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > But IMO the court should deny bail and hold them until the trial(s) are over. However long that takes. Even if the law provides in a particular case that an accused should make bail? Should the court deny bail because of the political implications? ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2708 "2021-01-11T03:51:55Z")
Wow. Saw an article on CNN earlier, it had about 60% in favor, only aout 15% among Repubs. MAGAts will always support Trump, but I am trying to be hopeful that the average Republican voter, like the guy that you work with who is generally a decent guy, if ignorant, or that goes to your local church, or members of my family who work with that guy or go to his church, will start to see just how much they have been conned. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2709 "2021-01-11T03:53:43Z")
That’s what I think will actually take some time to manifest properly, **Mike**. In the end, I fully expect Trump to be killed by his own fans at a rally sometime later this year, having destroyed not only his ambitions but his fortune and his family name. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2710 "2021-01-11T03:55:21Z")
Flight risk, danger to society, etc. There are always ways to sell the Infinity Hold. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2711 "2021-01-11T04:00:44Z")
Well, not for just wearing the shirt, no. But if you spray paint “kilroy was here” on a Synagoge , you might get a small fine. If you spray paint a swastika, that becomes a hate crime, with much more serious penalties. So, indeed, Hate Crime additions. I also want to know who the fuck is making those shirts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2712 "2021-01-11T04:05:41Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Someone should start a Go Fund Me or something like that campaign, and ask for donations for every single journalist that documented this. They are goddamn national heroes. Note that the insurrectionists also destroyed a large amount of cameras and other press equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2713 "2021-01-11T04:06:20Z")
I have been debating this against myself and a friend who called Biden gutless for saying that it should not be his decision. And that was my first reaction. But I believe that the President and the FBI and the DOJ should be seperate “branches”. It is clearly obvious that Trump knew what he was saying, he absolutley knew there were QAnons and Proud Boys in that crowd at the White House. But he did not literally tell them to get violent, he said they should never stop fighting, but politicians use that term all the time. I hate slippery slope arguments. In this case, what Trump did on 1/6 was so (insert a dozen adjectitves) that I would not have a problem with Biden actively instructing the DOJ to go after Trump. But would that not give the next Repub administration, if we have another one, justification to go after Democrats? I think maybe the answer here is simple. The DOJ will go after Trump and all the insurrectionists, even if Biden does not directly instruct them to. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2714 "2021-01-11T04:08:05Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The criminal law power is one of the most intrusive powers that the government has. It authorises the state to deprive a citizen of the right to liberty. In some countries, the criminal law authorises the state to kill its citizens. Because it is so intrusive, It **has** to be hedged about with all sorts of procedural safeguards, to prevent it from being abused and becoming an instrument of political oppression. Excellent post Mr. Piper, but especially this paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2715 "2021-01-11T04:09:05Z")
I wonder if part of the high percentage is due to so many Republicans leaving due to Trump. The only ones left are Trumpists. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2716 "2021-01-11T04:11:47Z")
There’s all sorts of irony that the rioters are being taken down due to their social media. Gives a new spin on “We have met the enemy and he is us”. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2717 "2021-01-11T04:12:13Z")
As I have just recently finished rewatching the original movie for the first time in a couple of decades - Party of the Apes! Not the apes in the movie, the MAGA apes. And the obligaotry thing - apologies to the actutal apes on Earth ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2718 "2021-01-11T04:13:34Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > I hate slippery slope arguments. In this case, what Trump did on 1/6 was so (insert a dozen adjectitves) that I would not have a problem with Biden actively instructing the DOJ to go after Trump. But would that not give the next Repub administration, if we have another one, justification to go after Democrats? Luckily for you there isn’t a slippery slope argument here. I have no qualms about going on record with this: if Joe Biden or any other elected official incites a mob to attack the Capitol building in order to disrupt the electoral process, he or she should also be impeached. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2719 "2021-01-11T04:18:49Z")
I absolutely agree with that. And this is my problem. I have no doubt Trump wanted to incite a mob. But you can’t prove that from his actual words. I am worried that in the future, a Democratic President, or congressperson, could be indicted because they said the BLM should continue fighting, and then someone at BLM protest broke into a Walmart. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2720 "2021-01-11T04:19:30Z")
Yes, see up to now, mostly what trump did was dirty politics, lower than even Nixon. But note that word “politics”. They all do dirty politics, it is just _how_ dirty. But trump crossed a big line here. This is no longer politics. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2721 "2021-01-11T04:20:44Z")
(Also posted to the pit thread on the riots) I think we are going to see, in retrospect, that we are suffering from a failure of imagination at this moment. We aren’t seeing what is coming together before our eyes. We are watching the beginning of the end game to the greatest crime in our nation’s history. It’s so unthinkable that we don’t know how to think it, and even if we think it, it’s too crazy to say out loud. In 2016, the federal government of the United States of America was co-opted by a criminal organization. They really don’t want us to see what they’ve been up to. And they really don’t want to go away. And we aren’t really sure how to get them out. I don’t have time to lay out my case tonight, but I’m working on it. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2722 "2021-01-11T04:23:10Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > In 2016, the federal government of the United States of America was co-opted by a criminal organization I agree with that. Can it be proven? Not to everyone here on this board, but at least to a majority of Repubs. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2723 "2021-01-11T04:32:22Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > I have no doubt Trump wanted to incite a mob. But you can’t prove that from his actual words. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > In 2016, the federal government of the United States of America was co-opted by a criminal organization. This is why I like the idea floated today for the House to start the impeachment process next week, but the Senate trial to take place much later, in several months. This would be a pardon-proof trial, and it would allow the DOJ etc to gather and present evidence on _everything_ illegal that went on in this administration. Even if 2/3 of Republicans still refuse to impeach, it puts everything Trump has done out there as a matter of public record; and it forces a vote - the Republican Senators have to go _on record_ for the history books with all the evidence in view, no more hiding behind Mitch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=135) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=137)