# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 137
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2724 "2021-01-11T04:34:19Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > I am worried that in the future, a Democratic President, or congressperson, could be indicted because they said the BLM should continue fighting, and then someone at BLM protest broke into a Walmart. We do have to be careful about keeping those civil-liberties safeguards in place when flinging around criminal indictments. However, as a Democrat I don’t have a problem with the prospect of Democratic (and other) elected officials having a little extra incentive to make sure that they’re phrasing their speeches carefully to say what they mean. If you as an elected official can’t express your support for a peaceful demonstration, by BLM or any other lawful cause, without accidentally conveying a strong suggestion that you want the demonstrators to resort to illegal violence, then you sure as fuck need some better speechwriters. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2725 "2021-01-11T04:40:55Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > There are always ways to sell the Infinity Hold. It is apparent to me that you’ve never been the prosecutor opposing bail. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![loriloolee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5fc32e/32.png) [@loriloolee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/loriloolee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2726 "2021-01-11T04:43:50Z")
I’ve lurked here for many years and this is my very first post. I just want to say that I agree with **DrDeth** , this is a HATE crime. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2727 "2021-01-11T04:44:06Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > I think maybe the answer here is simple. The DOJ will go after Trump and all the insurrectionists, even if Biden does not directly instruct them to. Agreed. It’s not that Biden should be personally making decisions about prosecutions, nor that he should be instructing the AG to pursue charges. He should be telling his AG to carry out the normal investigations when there is apparent evidence, to lay charges if warranted, to not lay charges if they’re not warranted, and that Biden will back up the AG’s decisions, whichever they go. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2728 "2021-01-11T04:49:45Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Someone should start a Go Fund Me or something like that campaign, and ask for donations for every single journalist that documented this. They are goddamn national heroes. Speaking of Go Fund Me, Mr. Furbaby Hornhat had a Go Fund Me to help with his expenses from Arizona to DC. It had reached $10 when GFM shut it down. > **[Jake Angeli: The story behind the horned Arizona protester in the Capitol unrest](https://www.12news.com/article/news/crime/jake-angeli-the-story-behind-the-horned-arizona-protester-in-the-capitol-unrest/75-6eb27627-e53a-4ce5-83f8-15ee0aac0149)** > > In a phone call with 12 News Thursday, he said he didn't have time to answer questions, but noted he was waiting for a ride to travel back to Phoenix ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2729 "2021-01-11T04:50:14Z")
Here’s the latest rundown on who’s been arrested so far: > **[Records show fervent Trump fans fueled US Capitol takeover](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-coronavirus-pandemic-elections-1806ea8dc15a2c04f2a68acd6b55cace)** > > WASHINGTON (AP) — They came from across America, summoned by President Donald Trump to march on Washington in support of his false claim that the November election was stolen and to stop the congressional certification of Democrat Joe Biden as the... ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2730 "2021-01-11T04:52:27Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > It is clearly obvious that Trump knew what he was saying, he absolutley knew there were QAnons and Proud Boys in that crowd at the White House. But he did not literally tell them to get violent, he said they should never stop fighting, but politicians use that term all the time. He is often derided for not being the sharpest tack in the box, but one thing Trump is the master of, is getting close to the line without actually going over it. If you listen to his remarks in Washington on January 6, he never actually told his supporters to storm and occupy the Capitol. Instead, he hinted that Mike Pence has some sort of powers he has under some super-secret constitutional provision, and Pence _needs to do the right thing_. Only if he does, will you be happy. The corollary is, that if Pence does not do what Trump wants, you won’t be happy, will you? > [@](#): > > I hope so because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election. All he has to do… States want to revote. The States got defrauded. They were given false information. They voted on it. Now they want to recertify. They want it back. All Vice-President Pence has to do is send it back to the States to recertify, and we become president, and you are the happiest people. Later, he pinwheels to “Biden should not be in there” because _“we’re not going to stand for that”_: > [@](#): > > I said, “I’m not interested right now [in a 2024 run]. Do me a favor, go back eight weeks. I want to go back eight weeks. Let’s go back eight week. [_sic_]” We want to go back, and we want to get this right because we’re going to have somebody in there that should not be in there and our country will be destroyed, and we’re not going to stand for that. Much later, he returns to what he believes is Pence’s role, his belief that Biden is illegitimate, and that the people in the crowd that he’s addressing _cannot let that happen_: > [@](#): > > Mike Pence has to agree to send it back… > > You will have a president who lost all of these states, or you will have a president to put it another way, who was voted on by a bunch of stupid people who lost all of these things. You will have an illegitimate president, that’s what you’ll have. And we can’t let that happen. And finally, we’re going to the Capitol, to do something for Republicans in Congress, by walking down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol. What that “something” is, is not stated: > [@](#): > > So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue … we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… [W]e’re going to try and give them [Republicans in Congress] the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. There are so many examples in his Wednesday rally speech (which lasted 73 minutes–who does he think he is, Fidel Castro?), but it is easy to see that while Trump doesn’t overtly encourage breaking into and occupying the Capitol, he implies it; and some of his more rabid supporters in the crowd would (and as history tells us, did) interpret his remarks as a call to do just that. He knew damn well what he was inciting with his remarks, but he stopped shy of stating such, and let his followers draw their own conclusions about what he wanted them to do. Which they did. Source for Trump’s speech transcript: > **[Donald Trump "Save America" Speech January 6 | Transcripts](https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-save-america-rally-transcript-january-6)** > > Donald Trump spoke at a "Save America" rally in Washington, D.C. on January 6 before Congress was set to confirm the election results. "We will never concede," he said. Read the transcript of his speech remarks here. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2731 "2021-01-11T04:56:35Z")
I’m awfully tired of Republican criminals being allowed to hide behind questionably plausible deniability. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2732 "2021-01-11T05:01:36Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > he implies it; and some of his more rabid supporters in the crowd would (and as history tells us, did) interpret his remarks as a call to do just that. He knew damn well what he was inciting with his remarks, but he stopped shy of stating such There is one thing, and one thing only, that Trump is good at it. Being a con man without leaving any evidence of his crimes. And he is a fucking mastermind at it, probably the best in the country’s history, and he has been doing it his entire life. He is not nor ever has been a politcal genius playing 3 dimensional chess. So for my pop cultural refernce of the day, I give you this. I was just joking with a friend on Facebook, I can come up with one for just about anything. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aK9OgXRDXxs/maxresdefault.jpg "Buffers") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK9OgXRDXxs) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2733 "2021-01-11T05:05:01Z")
Welcome! 🤠 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2734 "2021-01-11T05:20:19Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > I have no doubt Trump wanted to incite a mob. But you can’t prove that from his actual words. I think that it would not just be his speech on Wednesday, but his entire pattern of behaviour since the election, leading up to that speech. It’s the totality of the events. I think a well-argued prosecution case could meet that standard of a “reasonable likelihood of conviction”, and then it’s in the hands of the jury, which is exactly where it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2735 "2021-01-11T05:37:04Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I think that it would not just be his speech on Wednesday, but his entire pattern of behaviour since the election, leading up to that speech. It’s the totality of the events. I think a well-argued prosecution case could meet that standard of a “reasonable likelihood of conviction”, and then it’s in the hands of the jury, which is exactly where it should be. Right. Something about how he continued to say the election was stolen without providing a single piece of evidence, and he did so in front of an angry crowd, many of whom were known to him to be seditionists, and what was the likely outcome? Something similar to a manslaugher charge. To you and me and most people in this thread, he is guilty as hell. Will a jury buy it, if it ever comes to one, ,which I doubt ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2736 "2021-01-11T07:07:43Z")
Colin Powell has left the party! > **[Colin Powell: ‘I can no longer call myself a fellow Republican’](https://thehill.com/homenews/news/533575-colin-powell-i-can-no-longer-call-myself-a-fellow-republican/)** > > Former Secretary of State Colin Powell said that he no longer considers himself a Republican following the riot that broke out at the Capitol last week.Asked by CNN’s Fareed Zakaria wheth… ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2737 "2021-01-11T07:08:49Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Something about how he continued to say the election was stolen without providing a single piece of evidence [Sarcasm: On] But there was evidence! My brother’s girlfriend’s cousin’s sister’s friend was a Republican observer, and she said that Democrat observers kept her six feet away from the counting. I swore an affidavit attesting to such. The court threw my evidence out. Fraud! Corrupt courts! [Sarcasm: Off] No, you idiot. That’s hearsay, not evidence that is admissible in court. And at such a distance from the parties to any lawsuit, you have no standing. Suck it up, buttercup. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2738 "2021-01-11T07:23:18Z")
The Capitol Police Chief’s side of the story: > **[Outgoing Capitol Police chief: House, Senate security officials hamstrung...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sund-riot-national-guard/2021/01/10/fc2ce7d4-5384-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html)** > > Even as rioters violently overran his forces, Steven Sund said in an exclusive interview, the sergeants at arms for the House and Senate took more than an hour to approve his request. Basically, he’s blaming both the House and Senate Sergeants at Arms. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2739 "2021-01-11T07:30:36Z")
Regarding the argument from the insurrectionists that it’s logically impossible to break in if it’s a public building: > [@](#): > > _“It’s my house, it’s our house – we paid for that,” an unknown man responded._ One could say the same thing about the police. They are public servants, their salaries and buildings and uniforms and everything else are paid via public funds. So I can just mosey on down to the motor pool and drive myself away in a squad car, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2740 "2021-01-11T07:45:40Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > One could say the same thing about the police. They are public servants, their salaries and buildings and uniforms and everything else are paid via public funds. > > So I can just mosey on down to the motor pool and drive myself away in a squad car, right? Of course, and the same applies to publicly-funded military bases and weapons installations. Drop in and pick up a nuke or two any time you like, it’s your God-given right as a 'Murican. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2741 "2021-01-11T08:30:54Z")
I haven’t seen this posted here yet. It’s a nauseating video taken by Donald Trump Jr. just before Trump’s speech. Trump is wearing red boxing gloves. What a bunch of scumbags. [https://m.qt.com.au/news/cop-injured-in-us-capitol-riots-dies/4169862/](https://m.qt.com.au/news/cop-injured-in-us-capitol-riots-dies/4169862/) [![](https://media.apnarm.net.au/media/images/2021/01/08/v3imagesbin0dbf813dfc5a77a47d04b589c3f21ce0-cqhe363hwdvhgemunv2_t1880.jpg) ](https://media.apnarm.net.au/media/images/2021/01/08/v3imagesbin0dbf813dfc5a77a47d04b589c3f21ce0-cqhe363hwdvhgemunv2_t1880.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2742 "2021-01-11T08:51:26Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > It’s a nauseating video taken by Donald Trump Jr. just before Trump’s speech. Trump is wearing red boxing gloves. How the hell could he Tweet in those things? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/2743 "2021-01-11T09:27:32Z")
Holy shit – I’m absolutely flabbergasted: Any sane person would delete a video recording of their own coup attempt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=136) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=138)