# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 158
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3148 "2021-01-16T06:40:50Z")
You are correct. But they don’t open fire on CROWDS of white people. With bullets, rubber bullets or even tear gas it would seem. If this had been a crowd of anything other than white people there would have been dozens of people shot or teargassed before they ever breach the doors. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3149 "2021-01-16T10:30:35Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > 🎶 For the worst treason in the whole wide world, it’s the MyPillow [dot] Guy! 🎶 This guy is the reason I watch Morning Joe with the remote near at hand. His ad’s are on with almost every break and I hit mute as quickly as I can. But, once in awhile, I’ll be unable to get to the remote quickly enough. From now on when this happens, I will chose to hear your version of this irritating ditty. Thank you so much! Goddammit, as I’m typing this, his fucking commercial just came on MSNBC. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3150 "2021-01-16T14:21:09Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > The leader of the self-styled “patriots” approaches a National Guard officer, and says, “We’re here to help you guys. Hey, we’re on the same side, after all. What do you want us to do?” > > And the National Guard officer replies, “Get lost.” … after taking selfies with them. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3151 "2021-01-16T14:33:49Z")
Good description/analysis of the riot. Paywalled, but The Atlantic allows four free articles per month to non-subscribers. > **[We’re Just Finding Out How Bad the Riot Really Was](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/it-was-much-worse-it-looked/617693/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%2BTheAtlantic%2B%28The%2BAtlantic%2B-%2BMaster%2BFeed%29)** > > More than a week after insurrectionists stormed the Capitol, video recordings, news reports, and federal charges are revealing a situation even more dire than it seemed at the time. To the question raised above about the police not shooting: > … > “I didn’t want to be the guy who starts shooting, because I knew they had guns—we had been seizing guns all day,” Daniel Hodges, a D.C. police officer, [told the _Post_](https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/01/14/dc-police-capitol-riot/?arc404=true). “And the only reason I could think of that they weren’t shooting us was they were waiting for us to shoot first. And if it became a firefight between a couple hundred officers and a couple thousand demonstrators, we would have lost.” > … ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3152 "2021-01-16T14:56:01Z")
So, like democracy, it only works if everyone follows the same rules. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3153 "2021-01-16T15:00:45Z")
The coup planning began, with Trump, in October: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50841506272_34c35f99af_b.jpg "2021-01-16\_09-00-04") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/68782016@N08/50841506272/) > **[Off the Rails: Trump's premeditated election lie lit the fire](https://www.axios.com/2021/01/16/trump-election-premeditated-lie)** > > Axios takes you inside the collapse with a special series. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3154 "2021-01-16T15:45:37Z")
Some wag on MSNBC (Frank Fagulli(sp?), I think) noted that if the Secret Service thought Trump was in danger he would’ve been bunkered, not in a tent, celebrating. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3155 "2021-01-16T16:17:43Z")
I think this is spot on, JT. And yes, in an odd way, reassuring (as reassuring as it can be). ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3156 "2021-01-16T16:20:04Z")
He probably considered this possibility as early as 2016. For the record, I believe he actually did want to win that election and reject the idea that he wanted to lose and walk around declaring victory. In the primaries? Yes, I think he just wanted to make noise, but once it was down to a race of two, and he was pitted against Hillary, I think he had no choice but to win. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3157 "2021-01-16T18:47:17Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > In the primaries? Yes, I think he just wanted to make noise, but once it was down to a race of two, and he was pitted against Hillary, I think he had no choice but to win. Yeah, his game in 2016 **was** to go in already claiming everything was rigged against him, and look for anything to grab on to as an excuse or justification in case he lost. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3158 "2021-01-16T19:29:54Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > > [@k9bfriender](#): > > > > I _suspect_ that Pence is holding this as an action to ensure Trump’s “good” behavior until the inauguration. Trump steps out of line, and he invokes it. - > > Wouldn’t that require a spine? And balls? And honor? And a moral compass that renders him capable of discerning good behavior from bad? ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3159 "2021-01-16T19:41:07Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > > [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > > > Those people _are_ going to turn on Trump eventually > > Well, why not? He never did build much of that wall nor even close to locking her up. They voted for for him because he was the guy who tells it like it is and gets things done, and did not deliver on either. Why not? Because these people absolutely believe it when they say Trump is the best president in history. In their eyes: Trump took on China, started no new wars, brought peace to the Middle East, tried to build the wall, fix health care, brought manufacturing back to the US, drained the swamp, oversaw the biggest economic boom in history, created more jobs for minorities than any president ever, and much much more. Even though he didn’t do many of the things he promised (such as the wall), they believe he _would_ have if not for being hounded by liberals. They will never leave him, especially now that their entire identity is invested in Trumpism. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3160 "2021-01-16T19:43:45Z")
All it requires is a basic idea of survival. Trump calls another mob forth to lynch Pence, and he’ll invoke it then. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3161 "2021-01-16T19:57:54Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > I can’t help but wonder whether some of the wind has been taken out of the movement’s sails after the attempted coup / insurrection failed on the 6th I believe it has dumped a bucket of the cold reality of what they’ve been supporting/promoting on his followers, which will shrink the protest marches because they never thought _they_ would be the ones to die. Most of the Trumpers in my area were genuinely shocked at what happened on Jan 6th and have been struggling to find an excuse (Antifa did it is the most popular) or to dismiss it (not nearly as bad as BLM riots). But, while they won’t head for DC on Monday, they will quietly support those who do. They’ve gone quiet because their favorite slogans (‘All Lives Matter’, ‘Blue Lives Matter’, ‘Law and Order’) are now a joke, but their dedication to Trump is still solid. Twitter banning Trump is maybe the best way to shut this movement down, or at least slow it down – without their leader telling them what to think and do, they don’t know how to regroup. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3162 "2021-01-16T22:33:50Z")
A guy was stopped at a barrier near the Inauguration location with an unauthorized inauguration pass (they haven’t said what that meant), an unregistered gun, and 500 rounds of ammunition. > **[Armed man arrested near Capitol with unauthorized inauguration pass, 500...](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/armed-man-arrested-near-capitol-unauthorized-inauguration-pass-500-rounds-n1254521)** > > The suspect, Wesley Allen Beeler, 31, was stopped in a Ford pickup truck with gun-related decals. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3163 "2021-01-16T22:46:48Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > A guy was stopped at a barrier near the Inauguration location with an unauthorized inauguration pass (they haven’t said what that meant) I don’t know either, but [it says here](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/inauguration-day-2021-everything-you-need-to-know/2542669/): > [@](#): > > Traditionally, Senators and members of Congress are the gatekeepers of tickets, with each lawmakers allotted a number of passes they can distribute to constituents, donors or special guests. Sounds like this guy may have had a Cunning Plan to forge one of those tickets/passes for himself “and then ha-ha, they’ll have to let me in!” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3164 "2021-01-16T22:47:10Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Wesley Allen Beeler (Andy Rooney) Didja ever notice it’s always three names with those crazy shooter bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3165 "2021-01-16T22:50:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Traditionally, Senators and members of Congress are the gatekeepers of tickets, with each lawmakers allotted a number of passes they can distribute to constituents, donors or special guests. Please stop scaring me. I assume they are not being total idiots about this after what happened at the Capitol. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3166 "2021-01-16T23:10:17Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > There is video of the crowd at the Capitol chanting “hang Mike Pence”. Certainly his Secret Service detail has been made aware of that and I hope they have shown him that video so he understands. That crowd was at Pence’s location looking for him _so they could murder him_ , publicly in front of a crowd of bloodthirsty onlookers who would have cheered as it happened. I know Pence is a bootlicking toady but actual danger to his person ought to be a powerful motivator, especially since Trump was responsible for sending that crowd over. Apparently not. He’s still puckering up. > [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Crane](#): > > > > here may have been plausible reasons for the police assisting the rioters. > > The police _did_ assist the rioters. It is there on film. “May” does not modify “assisting the rioters”, it modifies “plausible reasons”. It’s looking at justification, not the existence of the event. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > _ **Every one of those people and 50 million more REALLY believe that that the election was stolen by a banana republic scale fraud and Donald J Trump is the rightful winner of the election** _ This. > [@rocking\_chair](#): > > This is where the woman was shot. They were evacuating the members of Congress 3 ish feet away. I believe that the policemen who were trying to keep them from the doors heard that reinforcements were on the other side of the door and got out of the way of their shots. As a woman was shot and killed moments later by the reinforcements on the other side of the door, I believe it was a prudent move. No, the reinforcements were coming up the stairs on the outside of the room. Someone has since dissected the incident. The tall cop in the middle keeps looking back through the glass doors to monitor the status of the evacuation while talking on the radio with the riot police coming up the stairs. The thought was that they were right there, these three would slide out of the way to make room for the reinforcements to get in. In retrospect, they should have stayed put, as moving aside was interpreted as surrendering. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That they sympathised with the rioters? That seems a pretty easy assumption from the videos and relaxed attitudes by the police. He said _“justifies”_, not _explains_. > [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Damned if you do… What should the response to Fascist Trumpers demonstrating be? Just ignore them? I think that is it, you can’t have a new Civil War if you don’t engage those trying to start one. But how do you igrnore Fascists demonstrating in the streets? You can counter-_protest_ without spraying chemicals in their faces, or throwing things at them, or getting in their way and shouting in their faces and poking and slapping at them. Violence begets violence. > [@Crane](#): > > Impeachment has dangers as a precedent but so does the failure to impeach bad behavior. An unimpeached Trump becomes the bar future Presidents slither down to before they may be impeached. Yes, what I said about needing to set a precedent. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > We now elect “leaders” who _choose_ to not recognize impeachable conduct. Their reason for making such a choice is shameful: They are worried about their political futures. > > In my opinion, that’s the real problem. They are chosen and elected by a population that likewise does not recognize it. > > I don’t know how to fix this. First, we should stop calling them “_leaders_” - they are too busy going where the crowd wants them to stand up and tell them the truth. But otherwise, I also am stymied as to how to fix the problem. Because the problem is rooted in the efforts of at least three decades of conservatives and Republicans to distort the truth and mislead their followers. The whole “the liberal media” lie that begets the conservative alt-media like Rush, followed by Fox News. Then a push to cast moderate conservatives as traitors to the cause for negotiating and compromising. Primary them out, then push the Ted Cruz’s to the forefront. Creating a mindset that offending the liberals is a laudable goal - “liberal tears”. Next you get racists worked up over a black President, and Donald Trump comes along. He previously tried to run as a Democrat but no one ever took him seriously, so he decided since they wouldn’t buy his shit, he’d change parties. And he knew all the levers to pull. All the working class white people hit hard by economic impacts and loss of good-paying jobs that don’t require college degrees. All the white Americans looking at the browning of society and feeling threatened by the different faces. All the christians seeing their privileges being revoked in the name of equality and feeling it like their rights are being trampled. Then white nationalists and other racists getting winks and nods (and more) from Trump that their beliefs are acceptable, that they are good people, that he stands for their goals. Trump says he will fix all their woes. He will stop the illegal immigration and reduce other immigration. He will protect them from the Islamic threat by preventing Islamic foreigners from coming. He will focus on the US economy and making it better by reducing the bureaucracy and regulations controlling business. He will bring back manufacturing jobs. He will fight “the War on Christmas” and appoint conservative judges and anti-abortion Justices. And he lies. He lies about everything. He lies to stir the pot, he lies to promote himself, he lies to sound tough and smart, he lies to make his followers laugh and get them excited. And then he lies about the media, saying that it is all fake news. He paints CNN and the Washington Post and any other reputable source as liars out to get him. He gets his people to believe that the media is engaged in a plot against him, that every scandal he creates is a lie. Then he preps the ground by telling them all that election fraud is a rampant curse, that the democrats are pushing for ever more creative ways to fake the election results. That he must be the winner, because all these people are ardently his supporters, therefore _everyone_ must be his supporters. Except the evil liberals. So the only way he can lose is fraud. And he loses. And then he creates a campaign of “fraud, fraud, fraud” to justify his loss and try to preempt the election results, to no avail. So his last ditch effort to stay President is to stir up the crowd to march on Congress and force them to comply. And they feel they are in the right, that _they_ are the defenders of democracy, it’s the Democrats who are the corrupt ones that have stolen the election and nobody will do anything about it. And they are steeped in the gun culture and Second Amendments lore of the right to bear arms in order to protect society from tyranny. It’s not just a convenient excuse to keep guns legal, it is a heartfelt belief. And that means when they see what looks like the destruction of democracy, they feel they **must** take action. That they are following in the steps of the American Revolutionaries. So violence is acceptable, even necessary, to protect the U.S. from the corrupt liberals that seek to defy true democracy and take away power for their own evil goals. It disgusts me. How do we deprogram half of America? How do we cut through the decades of bullshit and pull people’s heads out of their asses and get them to see reality? My hope is that with Biden taking office and having control of Congress, he can make great strides in improving the country. He can tackle the pandemic with a bold action plan and strong financial recovery for all the people who are suffering. That he can rebuild our national standing with our allies to make us a proud contributor, not a literal laughingstock. That he can get the economy rolling again through the obliteration of the virus and build the kind of jobs that can create wealth for the disadvantaged and build the middle class. That he can push an infrastructure plan that makes America better while pushing our economy stronger. And he can do it while making American government more inclusive again, with broader perspectives and giving voice to the underserved. And by demonstrating a bold, decisive, active vision of someone who listens to facts and to experts and seeks results, not headlines, he will demonstrate the juxtaposition of himself versus the last four years. Maybe then we can win some people over. By seeing that government health care doesn’t mean we become a communist state, that greater social justice doesn’t mean trampling whites, that Black Lives Matter and Police Reform doesn’t mean get rid of the police or not supporting the police. That greater income equality targets a higher line for most people. But that’s a lot to accomplish in 2 years (next Congressional election) or 4 years (1 term) or even 8 years (if he can make it that long). Maybe I’m putting too much at his feet. Because the newly elected Republicans are not ready to return to reality, they were put there by the faction against reality. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3167 "2021-01-16T23:12:23Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Please stop scaring me. I assume they are not being total idiots about this after what happened at the Capitol. Sorry, didn’t mean to scare you. From the next few sentences in my link: > [@](#): > > This year, however, the ceremony will be largely scaled-back because of the coronavirus pandemic still raging across the country and security threats following the siege of the U.S. Capitol. Lawmakers will receive a ticket for themselves and a plus-one and public health protocols, including face-coverings and social distancing, will be in place. > > The general public will not be able to get tickets for the event, the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies (JCCIC) announced in mid-December, and planners are encouraging Americans to refrain from traveling to Washington, D.C. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=157) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=159)