# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/301 "2020-11-13T03:27:19Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > But I think all this noise is going to be good for the Democrats in Georgia. It would be so poetic if Trump continues with his coup, supported by enough spineless Republicans, who inadvertently create the unintended consequence of mobilizing enough of Georgia voters to flip both seats. I was surprised to learn that it wasn’t that long ago that Georgia had 2 Democratic senators (2003), so it seems the potential should still be there. But this is 2020, so I don’t have a great feeling that this will happen. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2020, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/302 "2020-11-13T11:12:09Z")
The election isn’t until January 5th of 2021. So that might help! I’m actually feeling pretty optimistic about it myself. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/303 "2020-11-13T13:52:50Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Civilizations fall, societies crumble. We are not unique or immune. I’m afraid this is what’s been playing through my head over and over again. The US is a “new” country, but it’s also a political dinosaur in some regards. WWII gave European and other “Western” or “developed” countries a chance to start anew, to view themselves differently without the entrapments of colonial competition. They have developed a better appreciation for people power and have invested in institutions to support that cause; the US has done just the opposite, it would seem. That’s not to say that these same pressures that are being exerted on us aren’t being felt by other countries, but investments in public institutions enable them to withstand these forces better than we have. I think the US is heading into the dark ages, and it will probably be left up to Gen Z and Millennials to pull us out. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/304 "2020-11-13T14:00:57Z")
Not exactly. Here are the upcoming federal deadlines: December 8, 2020: The “Safe Harbor” Deadline (deadline for states to resolve any controversies with their elections in order to avoid congressional second-guessing when electoral votes are counted) December 14, 2020: Electors Vote in Their States January 6, 2021: Joint Session of Congress to Count Electoral Votes and Declare Election Results Meets [https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11641](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11641) ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/305 "2020-11-13T14:03:27Z")
Oh darn. Well, I’m still optimistic. Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/306 "2020-11-13T14:09:21Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m afraid this is what’s been playing through my head over and over again. The US is a “new” country, but it’s also a political dinosaur in some regards. It is often bragged that we are the oldest continuous democracy. That’s a bit like bragging on your 1960 Chevy Corvair. Nice, impressive that you have kept it running, but there really are much better models out there that you might want to try for everyday driving. They don’t really make parts for it anymore, and it’s gonna break down eventually. > [@asahi](#): > > I think the US is heading into the dark ages, and it will probably be left up to Gen Z and Millennials to pull us out. Unfortunately, I think that there are too many people who want to see those dark ages. They think we gave civilization a chance, and they want to try something else. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/307 "2020-11-13T14:10:26Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > I don’t get “the lawsuit failed, but the Legislature gets to count it as evidence” line. In that case the lawsuit is irrelevant. The legislature can just choose to override the election on their own. The point is build a (bogus) case to get a certain mass of public support behind a coup. The legal stuff is public theater that moved the public conversation in a particular direction. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/308 "2020-11-13T14:15:11Z")
This isn’t new but it’s well collated and should be a sent as a response to every friend and relative that continues to post their pro-Trump bullshit on social media. What did they know and when did they know it?: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/P43wDpKQxaM/maxresdefault.jpg "#TheyKnew who Trump Really Was All Along. Conservatives in their own words.") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P43wDpKQxaM) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/309 "2020-11-13T15:40:30Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > The election isn’t until January 5th of 2021. > [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Oh darn. Well, I’m still optimistic. > > Thanks for the correction. You are probably thinking of the Georgia senate runoff elections which happen on January 5. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/310 "2020-11-14T01:43:09Z")
I read a news story today that said Trump isn’t really trying to fight, he’s just maintaining the appearances of a fight because that’s what his supporters expect. And I immediately thought of here and how that would get him banned for trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/311 "2020-11-14T12:47:59Z")
I am a lot less concerned about a coup attempt after Trump’s Covid speech yesterday. He slipped and was going to say that the Biden administration was going to institute national lockdowns when they took over, but he caught himself and tried to walk it back. He’s doing this all for show. He knows he lost. It’s over. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/312 "2020-11-14T13:41:53Z")
I’m not worried about a coup, because this is just pathetic - but I disagree with the idea that he’s coming to terms with his loss. I know it’s a common sentiment, but …you’ve seen him in action for 5 years, right? Everyone assumes these little slips, these signs of chinks in the armor of his alternate reality, are an indication that he’s coming to terms with his loss. I think it’s the opposite. He’s been frantically constructing a new reality in his head for a week now. Building an alternate universe takes a little time, even for someone as practiced as Trump. These little slips, these gaps in the wall, were only visible because construction was not yet complete. He’s going full out delusional, as evidenced by the fact he’s apparently told the last vestiges of sanity to pound sand and he’s picked Rudy as his new champion. Rudy. Living proof that right wing media causes brain damage. He was always unpleasant but he was competent. He was a federal prosecutor. Now he’s literally insane. A babbling drooling moron. A walking talking PSA. “this is your brain, this is your brain on Fox”. The Sacklers are moral paragons compared to Murdoch. And that shit’s eating up Trump’s brain as well. Trump 2024 will be a ranting lunatic babbling about Soros owning armies of Martian sex slaves that have been genetically engineered by Big Tech to shit Biden ballots that sail from Mars to Earth like paper airplanes in the night to rig an election against me. He still might win 2024, which is the scary part, but he’ll be full on apeshit crazy. And he’ll never admit he lost ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/313 "2020-11-14T15:59:20Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I read a news story today that said Trump isn’t really trying to fight, he’s just maintaining the appearances of a fight because that’s what his supporters expect. And I immediately thought of here and how that would get him banned for trolling. More importantly, its letting him continue to solicit campaign donations. He’s sending out urgent campaign fundraising solicitations that he needs money to fight the illegal Democratic subversion of the election. But he has no obligation to actually uses those funds for legal expenses related to challenging the outcome. He can bank them for a future campaign, bankroll his and his families lifestyles as dubious “campaign expenses,” or use his massive fundraising abilities as a lever to keep the Republican party in his orbit. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/314 "2020-11-14T16:02:18Z")
This. DJT only has two motivations: self-aggrandizement and making money. Both at the same time? All the better. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/315 "2020-11-14T16:05:41Z")
I think he wants to fight but doesn’t know how. While he’s got loads of experience in legal fights, he’s used to specific kinds of legal fights that he’s had years of preparation for. He’s used to working with lawyers to screw contractors and lenders, but this is a peculiar challenge. Moreover, doesn’t know a way to accept defeat in a way that he can psychologically process. Hence the silence…which speaks loudly. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/316 "2020-11-14T16:37:10Z")
Exactly. Trump has been somewhat successful in the past using the _threat_ of litigation to bully his way to an advantageous outcome. For some contractor he’s screwing over, it may not make sense to incur all the expenses associated with litigation for the return they may get, so they’re willing to settle for pennies on the dollar. It didn’t matter how weak his case was. That doesn’t work when you’re suing state Secretaries of State and municipalities. They have staff lawyers who are being paid regardless. So he’s actually having to make his case in a courtroom, and it’s going as well as you would expect. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/317 "2020-11-14T16:45:55Z")
Moreover, his trusted lawyers have no experience in these areas, so he’s left to trust legal insiders who actually have experience in election law. But these are not the bombasts that Trump relates to, so when they urge caution and patience and fine-tuning legal arguments so that they can take something credible before a judge, this is something that doesn’t mesh well with Trump’s instincts. Trump wants these political and legal teams to behave more like he behaves, to be more like Giuliani and engage in camera theater. None of that shit is going to help him, and if anything, it might hurt him. So what’s left is nothing more than an attempt to exercise raw, naked power, and by that I meant either attempting an outright use of raw police and military power to effect a coup, which seems highly unlikely, or a political coup involving rogue legislatures and hoping that the SCOTUS is so blatantly partisan that it puts its hands on these state-by-state results and gift wraps an election to Trump - again, highly, highly unlikely. But Trump can cause an awful lot of damage to democracy itself and Biden’s perceived legitimacy. He can also impede Biden’s ability to govern by ransacking the executive branch, which I suspect is what he will try to do - when he’s not planning his own escape from legal jeopardy, that is. Will be interesting to see if he even makes it to the end of his term. He might be plotting a handover and pardon strategy. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/318 "2020-11-14T17:05:46Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He might be plotting a handover and pardon strategy. Strategy? He has no strategy. He’s a cornered animal furtively eyeing the nearest escape routes as he tries to scorch as much earth as he can in his wake. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/319 "2020-11-14T17:07:22Z")
Interesting points. One nitpick though on executive orders increasing with each successive president. Going by average per year, Reagan: 48, Bush: 42, Clinton: 46, Bush: 36, Obama: 35, Trump: 51. By absolute count, of course the elder Bush and Trump are lower than the two term presidents. Cite: [https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/executive-orders](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/executive-orders) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/320 "2020-11-14T17:24:41Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > He can also impede Biden’s ability to govern by ransacking the executive branch, which I suspect is what he will try to do - That process is well underway. > **[Opinion | Trump has deliberately made our government more dysfunctional....](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-has-deliberately-made-our-government-more-dysfunctional-heres-how-biden-can-fix-it/2020/11/12/fb59a3c2-2523-11eb-a688-5298ad5d580a_story.html)** > > Biden must focus on policy, people and public trust. > **[In Trump’s final days, a 30-year-old aide purges officials seen as...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-white-house-purge/2020/11/13/2af12c94-25ca-11eb-8672-c281c7a2c96e_story.html)** > > Critics say the dismissals threaten to destabilize the federal bureaucracy in the fragile period during the handover to the next administration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=17)