# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 164
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3268 "2021-01-19T00:18:48Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > Your empire going down should be good for everyone though, it’s just got to be managed properly. I don’t know where you’re from. Is there any chnce it happens to be the land of Brexit? ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3269 "2021-01-19T00:20:32Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Even though Parler isn’t up yet, it’s been hosted on a Russian provider. And will attract no attention at all! Nothing to see here, move along … ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3270 "2021-01-19T00:21:40Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > A magistrate in Arkansas let the guy who put his feet on Pelosi’s death out on house arrest. That decision has been overturned by a federal judge, who ordered him to be taken to Washington for a hearing. GOOD. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3271 "2021-01-19T00:22:39Z")
Pelosi’s death? Thankfully that man never got near her. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3272 "2021-01-19T00:27:53Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > …the guy who put his feet on Pelosi’s death… He failed. Like a true Trump supporter. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3273 "2021-01-19T00:27:54Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > Pelosi’s death? Thankfully that man never got near her > “I read where you were shot 5 times in the tabloids.” > > "It’s not true. He didn’t come anywhere near my tabloids.” ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3274 "2021-01-19T00:30:29Z")
Too little, too late. > **[Pentagon Accelerates Efforts to Root Out Far-Right Extremism in the Ranks...](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/18/us/politics/military-capitol-riot-inauguration.html)** > > The nation’s military has a history of downplaying white nationalism and right-wing activism, but the siege of the Capitol has created a new urgency for dealing with them. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3275 "2021-01-19T02:52:15Z")
You think this might have crossed their minds before a week ago, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3276 "2021-01-19T03:34:25Z")
They should start with the command staff at the Air Force Academy. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3277 "2021-01-19T03:38:29Z")
You are. But the Pentagon has never cared about having right wing extremists in their ranks, they only want soldiers who will follow the orders of their leaders. And since almost any general who rises to a high rank in the military usually believes that the miliary solution is the best one, likw the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Vietnam War and the Iraqi war, they don’t want a bunch of bleeding hearts in the ranks. From a military perspective, that makes perfect sense. The US was never going to go to war against the European Union, we were only going to go to war against those countires who, from their perspective, wanted to destroy the American way of life. Ridiculous perspective, "Charlie "didn’t give a damn about ending our way of life, he just wanted to live a better life in his country. But you could not with the Vietman War if you had most of the soldiers believing that. And the fact that many came to believe that, as well as a majority of the American public, is why we did not win that war. Back to present day, when Trump was elected there was no way the Pentagon could have forseen 1/6, they could not have forseen it six months ago. A bunch of raving lunitics storming the US Capitol, to quote from Apollo 13, it was not a contingency they remotely planned for. But, they could have and should have forseen it the day after Biden was declared the winner and Trump starting spreading the bullshit so high you needed wings to stay above it, but a couple of months is not enough time to weed them all out. And it wasn’t the military who invaded the Capitol. All of the highest ranking members of the military, past and present, said that there was no reason for the military to interfere in an election. Our system worked. The military did not get involved, the courts did not overturn the election, there were no faithless electors. And I still don’t believe any of that was particulary close to happening. And I am not known for being an optimist. Once again I feel like Johnny Cochran defending OJ. I am not a defender of the US Military, I think the defense budget should be cut by at least half, but they are not the problem here. And the fact that they are now looking into root-out right wing extremism is yet one more reason that I believe that the election of Trump will ultimately be of great benefit for this country ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3278 "2021-01-19T05:02:20Z")
Some facts for everyone, ABC is doing a good job of debunking some stuff here, like none of them were put on the “no fly list”. They were just assholes that also refused to wear masks. [https://6abc.com/not-real-news-misinformation-capitol-riots-donald-trump-supporters/9723890/](https://6abc.com/not-real-news-misinformation-capitol-riots-donald-trump-supporters/9723890/) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3279 "2021-01-19T05:11:57Z")
Riley Williams has been arrested. No indication in this article as to whether they retrieved the laptop. > **[Harrisburg woman arrested after allegedly stealing computer device from...](https://www.fox43.com/article/news/crime/harrisburg-woman-facing-charges-us-capitol-riots-washington-dc-nancy-pelosis-office-computer/521-4d01b9f1-f61b-421a-bdba-b6489627d33f)** > > Riley Williams was arrested for her role in the riot at the U.S. Capitol is Washington D.C. She allegedly stole a computer or hard drive from Nancy Pelosi's office. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3280 "2021-01-19T14:13:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There is a lot of good stuff in the Patriot act and some not so good stuff, such as Title II: Enhanced surveillance procedures. Do you have objections to other sections. or is this more knee jerk “dump everything to get rid of the part parts?” I’m not sufficiently familiar with the details to have a fully informed opinion. Heck, I was wrong upthread about how quickly it was enacted. My general attitude is that expanding police and surveillance powers is a poor idea and that hastily written legislation enacted while the nation and Congress were/are in a febrile mood is dangerous. This year is not the year, but soon enough the whole thing ought to be reviewed for its benefits to society and its costs in dollars and more importantly foregone liberty. As well, ref the last few years, the risk that it could be misused by rogue Presidents or their administrations. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3281 "2021-01-19T14:24:04Z")
…mainly because, unlike post-WWI Germany, our pro-liberal democratic institutions had decades, if not centuries, of solid strength behind them. My point about the Beer Hall Putsch Comparison is that the Capitol Hill insurrection is both an opportunity - and a warning. It’s an opportunity to recognize that our institutions have been seriously damaged and need to be repaired now, without delay, and that we have a good opportunity to do that now. But the forces that caused this insurrection are not at all going away. They will not be shamed into silence. They will not be blocked by Republican statesmen because it is simply beyond obvious, even now, that there just aren’t enough of them to matter. Before January 6th, the forces of illiberalism or majoritarianism were trash talking and threatening to attack democracy. On January 6th, those forces punched liberal democracy in the nose, and now its nose is bleeding all over its shirt. It’s a question of whether liberal democracy can punch back at this point, or whether it keeps getting socked and eventually gets stomped on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3282 "2021-01-19T14:28:15Z")
Enhanced surveillance is probably a necessary evil, and I’m fine with it provided that there are enhanced civil liberties protections and oversight to go along with it, which is what really seems to be the problem with the Patriot Act. I don’t think that those who wrote the Act necessarily did so with malice; they simply saw a problem and implemented a solution as quickly as they could. But the problem exists all the same. A general trend in recent decades is that government, particularly the United States government, operates with increased secrecy and the average person has less privacy. That’s an imbalance that inevitably endangers a free society. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3283 "2021-01-19T14:29:01Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Our system worked. The military did not get involved, the courts did not overturn the election, there were no faithless electors. And I still don’t believe any of that was particulary close to happening. And I am not known for being an optimist. I think we dodged a bullet. On November 3rd. Yes, the system held because the one thing that would’ve dealt a critical blow, possibly a death blow, to our Democracy didn’t happen. Trump lost. He was in the process of eliminating civil service protections and imposing loyalty tests on all White House civil service employees. Another four years, and the White House would’ve been a criminal cartel, the judiciary corruptly politicized and voting rights eroded to the point where we didn’t have real elections. The radicalization of state and (some) local governments would’ve been complete. - this is still something to keep an eye on. We came really close. Trump’s a clown and an idiot, but he was a very useful idiot for a bunch of people with an agenda. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3284 "2021-01-19T14:49:42Z")
I think asking “How close were we to democracy’s collapse on January 6th?” isn’t necessarily the right question to ask. But more than that, consider how much we’ve lowered the bar since, say, 4 years ago? 4 years ago an entire party didn’t question the legitimacy of Donald Trump’s victory. They pointed out that Republicans won with gerrymandering, vote suppression, misinformation, and an arguably outdated system of proportional representation, but they ultimately didn’t challenge the legitimacy of the election. They impeached the president not on the grounds of Russia’s meddling but on the president’s reaction to the alleged crimes. Just 4 years later we have an entire party that knows full well that it lost an election and tried to overturn the result – that’s even before the insurrection, which they encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3285 "2021-01-19T15:09:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Would you like a show of four hours of them methodically searching a room? 😛 Only if it realistically shows them searching for a parking space for half an hour, then double-parking anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3286 "2021-01-19T15:53:56Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > damn auto correct Ah, that explains it. I was, “Wait – what?” and Googled _norbert_ to make sure I wasn’t misremembering. The only House hit that came up was William Norbert, a Maine Democrat who quit in 2005. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3287 "2021-01-19T16:03:31Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > They also scream “why can’t we just get along” and “It’s now time for healing not for blame” when they get caught. It was sort of reminding me about a history I read of D-Day I read some years ago, with an entire chapter on the 2nd Ranger Battalion’s storming of [Pointe du Hoc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointe_du_Hoc) – the one you saw in _Saving Private Ryan_. The writer said that when the Rangers got to the top of the cliff the defenders tried to surrender, but “the Rangers were having none of it.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=163) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=165)