# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 166
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3308 "2021-01-19T21:35:53Z")
I remember when stealing a computer from the office of the Speaker of the House of Representatives of the USofA used to be a big deal. Can’t wait to see how this turns out. Republicans, Jeesus. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3309 "2021-01-19T21:38:44Z")
IANAL, but I believe it refers to this statute: > **[18 U.S. Code § 371 - Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371)** Again, not a lawyer, but I think it basically means if you conspire to break federal law, that in and itself is considered a crime, regardless of whether or not the crime is successfully executed. I’m guessing they have evidence that they intended to commit crimes in the Capitol (and/or against Capitol police and members of Congress). ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3310 "2021-01-19T21:42:20Z")
OK, thanks - so am I right in thinking that it’s (just) an additional charge rather than a more serious charge? j ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3311 "2021-01-19T21:43:45Z")
Well, if convicted, he’s no longer merely a theorist. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3312 "2021-01-19T21:43:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This is interesting… I watch tons of police procedural shows, and it always kills me how the cops in the shows can go into someone’s office and after a cursory look at the desk, the file cabinets, and the _bottom drawer_ , they inevitably find the one piece of evidence that makes the case. Sometimes they only have a few minutes because the suspect is in the kitchen making a drink (or in a British show, making tea). > > I KNOW these shows aren’t real and that no one can walk into an unfamiliar office and find a specific thing in 30 seconds. Hell, I can barely find things in my own home office and I know what’s here. A complete sidetrack, but maybe not as farfetched as it seems. In a book (Metzger’s Dog by Thomas Perry IIRC) the burglars mention that people always hide valuable stuff as far from the door as possible. I looked around, and realized I actually did that. I’ve since wondered if it’s universal, but not being a burglar, haven’t had a chance to verify. Still, if I were searching for valuable stuff, I’d start with the bottom drawer. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3313 "2021-01-19T21:45:14Z")
It’s potentially serious, and it probably means they feel they have enough evidence for it, whatever _it_ is. If we’re talking about Oath Keepers, it seems to me like they might have evidence of conspiracy to commit violent crimes (i.e. violently attacking a member of congress, Capitol Police, or other government officials). ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3314 "2021-01-19T21:53:14Z")
OK, thanks. Watch this space, I guess. j ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3315 "2021-01-19T22:02:39Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t think that those who wrote the Act necessarily did so with malice; they simply saw a problem and implemented a solution as quickly as they could. That solution included requiring libraries to report you, without your knowledge of course, if you check out certain books. Which is not even vaguely related to the events of 9/11, but was probably a result of the Ted Kazinski trial (librarian refused to tell them what books he’d checked out). I’m sure this isn’t the only absurd and unrelated item in the legislation. While the Patriot Act may have been an honest attempt at national security for some of those writing it, much of it was just an opportunity to close what some viewed as ‘loopholes’ in government access to our private information. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3316 "2021-01-19T22:07:15Z")
There still seems to be an almost total silence from the federal agencies regarding the progress of the investigation. I’m thinking that might change tomorrow afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3317 "2021-01-19T22:12:02Z")
They don’t necessarily need to announce all of their charges yet; they have the evidence, they’re gathering more, and they will announce their charges, plus additional charges, when they’re ready to bring it to the courts. I’m guessing there are still many more individuals yet to be charged. This is going to take a while - they want to send the message that nobody is getting away with this shit if it can be helped, which is the right tone, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3318 "2021-01-19T22:44:33Z")
Kroger is running a funding effort for Oath Keepers. > ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3319 "2021-01-19T22:58:26Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > OK, thanks - so am I right in thinking that it’s (just) an additional charge rather than a more serious charge? > > j I’m a lawyer but not a criminal lawyer. My understanding is that if you are charged with conspiracy, you can be found guilty of all the criminal acts committed by any other member of the conspiracy. The government doesn’t have to prove that you personally carried out every element of every crime (including intent), so long as the crime was part of the conspiracy. So if the invasion of the Capitol was a conspiracy, then every person who is established as a participant in the conspiracy might be guilty of felony murder of the police officer who was killed, even if only one of them actually committed that murder, and there was no specific agreement that that particular murder would be carried out. And if participants in the conspiracy included people who weren’t even physically present on the spot, they could also be found guilty of everything their co-conspirators did. One specific type of conspiracy statute is the federal Racketeer-Influenced Corrupt Organizations, or Rico, Acte, which was enacted to make all members of a criminal organization criminally liable for all the acts of every member of the organization. It is generally used to bring down mafia families. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3320 "2021-01-19T23:15:25Z")
Calling Snowboarder Bo… Metal Man… Iced Earth. I’ve heard of these guys. I’'m not familiar with them, but they’re big enough that I’ve heard of them. Maybe a midwest thing. Anyway… [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Ij00161hfn4/maxresdefault.jpg "Columbus, Indiana guitarist from Iced Earth arrested in Capitol riot") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij00161hfn4) ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3321 "2021-01-19T23:30:06Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Kroger is running a funding effort for Oath Keepers. …and already dropped, soon after someone called attention to it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2021, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3322 "2021-01-19T23:45:48Z")
I suppose it’s a program generally for supporting NonProfits, and that Kroger/Ralph’s themselves did not do a direct vetting of the organizations in it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3323 "2021-01-20T00:27:22Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > Still, if I were searching for valuable stuff, I’d start with the bottom drawer. Good tradecraft matters. If burgling, or searching a premises with no concern about them knowing you were here, _always_ start with the lowest drawer(s). Pull the bottom-most open, rifle the contents, pull the drawer above open, rifle the contents, Lather rinse repeat to the top, then move to the next column, etc. Much faster than open the top drawer, rifle the contents, close the drawer so you can reach the next drawer down, pull it open, … After rifling, stuff never fits back in neatly, so you either need to smash it to force the drawer closed, or throw the excess on the floor. IOW there’s lots of monkey motion if you work top down, and zero if you work bottom up. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3324 "2021-01-20T00:30:28Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Calling Snowboarder Bo… Metal Man… > Iced Earth. I’ve heard of these guys. I’'m not familiar with them, but they’re big enough that I’ve heard of them. Maybe a midwest thing. Anyway… I know them; never cared for their music. Power metal just isn’t my thing. This news is all over the metal world right now, tho. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3325 "2021-01-20T00:34:46Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If burgling, or searching a premises with no concern about them knowing you were here, _always_ start with the lowest drawer(s). Pull the bottom-most open, rifle the contents, pull the drawer above open, rifle the contents, Lather rinse repeat to the top, then move to the next column, etc. To return to my original point… I wasn’t talking about burglars who are likely to know where most people keep their Rolexes and Krugerrands, but the cops who are executing a search warrant in an office full of papers and files. They rifle through a few sheets of paper on a desk or flip through the top drawer of a file cabinet and presto! there’s the Important Document that will either convict or exonerate the principal suspect. Yeah, I know it’s fiction. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3326 "2021-01-20T00:57:36Z")
Oh yeah, fer sure. Police procedurals have very little to do with police procedure. Said another way: > TV & movies: Real life with all the boring parts edited out. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/3327 "2021-01-20T01:59:15Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > A magistrate in Arkansas let the guy who put his feet on Pelosi’s death out on house arrest. That decision has been overturned by a federal judge, who ordered him to be taken to Washington for a hearing. Why am I _not_ surprised that the judge let him out on house arrest? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=165) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=167)