# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/562 "2020-11-19T20:34:53Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > A republican congressman on NPR pointed out that many Latinos identify socialism with the commie countries they fled. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Which is their mistake and stupidity. The real mistake is to confuse progressivism as suggested by the American left or “social democracy” as successfully practiced by many European countries for 50 years now with “communism” as practiced in the one and only “commie” Latino country: Cuba. The Sandinista movement in Nicaragua was certainly a Soviet client. What they were not, was Communist. Said another way … Of course a Republican congressman would use “socialist” and “commie” as synonyms. Both for each other and for the US Democratic party platforms. But by doing so he demonstrates nothing but factual error from end to end. And therefore undercuts his case. An interesting question is whether he knows the difference and is deliberately lying or is so far down the rabbit hole himself that he believes it’s the truth. Neither is good news, but they’re different orders of bad news. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/563 "2020-11-19T20:44:46Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Great post 3 above here Sir @asahi; agree with all of it. Ref this snip: > > > [@asahi](#): > > > > Make no mistake: he entered politics as a total amateur, and he ended up taking over the entire fucking party - on his first go. That oughtta tell you something about his instincts. It tells me he can sense weakness. He knows how to play to an audience. > > This also speaks to the tottering nature of the R party at the time. Or perhaps better said as a party whose fissures had widened to the point the whole edifice was creaking and in danger of splitting. Given that big crack, Trump was able to see it, insert a fairly small wedge at the right place and time, then pound the bejeezus out of it until the whole thing snapped in two. > > But the way the R party snapped in two was telling. The traditionalists basically shut up, mumbled, or shouted “Yeah! What he said!!” _as individuals_. They didn’t stomp off _as a group_ in a doctrinally pure huff to form a true faction or even a new party. > > Leading me to suggest the party had already become a hollow collection of opportunists who were each separately uneasily astride the fissure unsure how to hold it together or which way to lean until it became obvious. > > ETA: And as you say in the post you slipped in just above mine, that way has now become all too obvious. RW police state authoritarianism. It also speaks to how political experts failed to see the rot within the Republican Party. Granted, the GOP had already been going in a pretty wacky direction for some time, but many people assumed there were just some lines that the party wouldn’t cross, and that it would demand at least a basic level of competence and decorum in its leaders. Hell, it’s laughable to think back now that a traditional establishmentarian like _Jeb Bush_ was at one point considered a front runner. I remember a number of pundits saying, in all seriousness, that 2016 was shaping up to be another Clinton-Bush contest. Instead, Jeb! wound up becoming Trump’s PWB (Personal Whipping Boy). But even if Trump hadn’t run, it’s pretty clear now that Bush’s brand of moderate politics, especially on issues like immigration, had no place in the modern GOP, and some other red meat-throwing fire breather, most likely Cruz, would have scored the nomination. Still, that a rank amateur like Trump, who most every political observer expected would quickly flame out, managed to gain such a stranglehold on the GOP, is indicative of a serious void of leadership, or even of people who care about principles, in the party. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/564 "2020-11-19T20:54:59Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Granted, the GOP had already been going in some wacky directions for some time, but many people assumed there were just some lines that the party wouldn’t cross, and that it would demand at least a basic level of competence and decorum in its leaders. Take the sacking of Esper and Krebs: the Republicans have long regarded themselves as the national security party in the grand tradition of Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and George H.W. Bush. Sens Graham and others express passing disapproval but nothing can make them give up their addiction to Trump because they need his voters for their own relevance. What’s happened to the Republican party is almost precisely what happened to conservatives in Germany when they made alliances with Hitler. They thought they could use him and throw him away; instead, _he_ became _their_ party and threw them away instead. And that’s what has happened to Republicans. There will be no line he can’t cross because they have removed the lines. At this point, it is simply a matter of whether Trump and his core loyalists realize that yet. If we’re lucky, they will calculate and conclude that they cannot win by poisoning the democratic process and begrudgingly leave the office while vandalizing and pillaging the White House as they exit. If we’re not so fortunate, they will see how far they can go before someone stops them, and even they might be surprised at just what they are able to achieve. This is not nearly over. Not by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/565 "2020-11-19T22:02:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > There was a time that wanting to have sex with a cartoon horse was a deep-seated shame you’d share with no one. Now they have conventions with merch. Hey, we have needs too! ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/566 "2020-11-19T22:02:52Z")
I guess they need at least one more election cycle to learn their lesson. I guess that’s too much to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/567 "2020-11-19T22:10:32Z")
Who’s surprised? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? > **[Trump's election lawsuits plagued by elementary errors](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-politics-lawsuits-elections-a508ebaafae82286c69eb091b75abdfc)** > > When President Donald Trump sends lawyers to court, it seems he’s not sending his best. Fighting to challenge an election he lost to President-elect Joe Biden, Trump has launched ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/568 "2020-11-19T22:34:14Z")
I was taught the difference in grade school, but many people to not understand the difference. Apparently many people fled dictatorships of one sort or another that called themselves socialist. Many people are ignorant of the difference between Socialism and Communism. I do wish Sanders had used another term to describe his concept. Chuchill for that matter, was very much against a Socialist government in Britain and lost the 1944 (1945?) election, but was elected again in the 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/569 "2020-11-19T22:37:07Z")
I honestly think they never meant for these to be serious. Their attorneys told them there was no chance. So they went as cheap as they could and tossed up some BS cases so the rabble would be satisfied, feel that the system was once again working against them and they needed to donate to Trump to fix it. Trump knew from day #1 (maybe #2) it was going nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/570 "2020-11-19T22:46:26Z")
Be careful about assuming that “clowns” like Trump and Giuliani couldn’t potentially succeed in doing the unthinkable. Hitler was a clown. Chavez a clown. A clown can become a dictator. There are people who see Trump as their own individual vehicle to power, and I can assure you that some of them are deadly serious about what they intend to do with power once they have it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/571 "2020-11-19T23:16:39Z")
How do they see Trump as their vehicle to power? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/572 "2020-11-19T23:19:27Z")
By being able to influence Trump, by being near power but with the added benefit of not always being in the glare of the spotlight. Think about Stephen Miller, for instance. He’s had outsized influence on immigration policy, just by existing. If nothing else, they can continue grifting. They can replace civil servants with more and more people who are in government for no other purpose than to enrich themselves. From their point of view, there’s all the motivation in the world to keep him in power - by any means necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/573 "2020-11-19T23:29:20Z")
Think of all the tools who bailed to Vichy France in WWII. Those kinds of people. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/574 "2020-11-20T01:00:20Z")
Fuck this guy and his 2020 supporters: > **[Trump told ally he's trying to get back at Democrats for questioning...](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/19/politics/trump-democrats-election/index.html)** > > President Donald Trump told an ally that he knows he lost, but that he is delaying the transition process and is aggressively trying to sow doubt about the election results in order to get back at Democrats for questioning the legitimacy of his own... ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/575 "2020-11-20T01:57:44Z")
The Washington Post is not sugarcoating this crisis. Note that this is **not** an opinion piece. **[Trump uses power of presidency to try to overturn the election and stay in office](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-uses-power-of-presidency-to-try-to-overturn-the-election-and-stay-in-office/2020/11/19/bc89caa6-2a9f-11eb-8fa2-06e7cbb145c0_story.html)** > **[Trump uses power of presidency to try to overturn the election and stay in...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-uses-power-of-presidency-to-try-to-overturn-the-election-and-stay-in-office/2020/11/19/bc89caa6-2a9f-11eb-8fa2-06e7cbb145c0_story.html)** > > After courts rejected the Trump campaign’s baseless allegations of widespread voter fraud, the president is now trying to remain in power with a wholesale assault on the integrity of the vote. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/576 "2020-11-20T02:02:48Z")
From the linked article: > [@](#): > > These are the words and actions of an attempted coup, according to historians and other experts. > > “We have never seen anything like this before,” historian and author Michael Beschloss said. “This is a president abusing his very great powers to try to stay in office, even though it is obvious to everyone that he has been defeated in the polls. That is a prospect that terrified most of the founders.” > > Beschloss added, “I don’t want to be alarmist, but I do think it’s our job as citizens to keep watch on every one of these things with an eye to that ultimate dread of the founders, which is that a president rejected by the voters would use his powers to try to stay in office anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/577 "2020-11-20T02:39:12Z")
That is a great way to encourage Republicans and Democrats to find a way to work together. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/578 "2020-11-20T03:55:51Z")
What is this comment in reaction to? It’s not in trumpet’s or the Republicans’ interest to work with Democrats. They don’t give two shot about our country or it’s institutions. They just want to stay in power. _They don’t want to work together._ ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/579 "2020-11-20T04:46:55Z")
To the extent that there was any irony in the title of this thread, that irony is gone. We are in treason territory now. In any reasonable circumstance, Trump and Giuliani would be facing the gallows. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/580 "2020-11-20T13:08:23Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Somewhere in my files is a 4000 word essay I wrote on my typewriter in 1994 titled “In the future, technology will make it easier to lie to each other” Cool! (No snark intended — seriously, that’s cool.) ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/581 "2020-11-20T13:45:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > To the extent that there was any irony in the title of this thread, that irony is gone. We are in treason territory now. In any reasonable circumstance, Trump and Giuliani would be facing the gallows. Yeah, when I first saw this thread, I thought it was a bit hyperbolic. I still don’t think an actual coup will take place, but the fact that things have gone as far as they have is just insane. American Democracy has been severely damaged already, no matter what happens now. trump is really scorching the earth on the way out. I’m deeply embarrassed for my state of Michigan: first the 2 Repub Wayne county canvassers refuse to certify the Wayne County vote (I mean, the Detroit portion-- they were fine with lily-white Repub Livonia, which had more voting irregularities than Detroit). Then they reverse themselves and vote to certify. Then, after a call from trump, they try to reverse their reversal and rescind their vote. Now today, the GOP heads of the Michigan House and Senate are flying to Washington to meet with trump. Whatever could that meeting be about? What’s more head-scratching is that it’s the clown show of trump, Guiliani, et al, who are actually persuading weak-minded people to believe in this voter fraud fantasy and go along with it. It’s like the Three Stooges fomenting a fascist takeover of the U.S. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=30)