# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/642 "2020-11-20T22:11:14Z")
Playing Devil’s Advocate for a moment, here: Giuliani definitely **does** know shit from Shinola: Shit is what’s coming out of his mouth. Shinola, OTOH, is what’s dripping down his temples. QED ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/643 "2020-11-20T22:11:34Z")
Kemp is talking now, and he is repeating his “concerns”. He’s upset about signature matching and other nonsense. He’s asking the SoS to try to sample audit signatures, which will never happen (and likely can’t). Then talking about more laws in the future to make it harder to vote. But it sounds like he is actually going to certify these results, although he never actually said those exactly words. Instead something like “now the Governor has to certify them to pave the way for the Trump campaign to demand a recount”. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/644 "2020-11-20T22:14:28Z")
I think there’s a good chance that going against the will of the people will cause a response that makes Watts look insignificant. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/645 "2020-11-20T22:15:52Z")
They will happily send in the military to slaughter any “looters.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/646 "2020-11-20T22:20:04Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > What they may - and I think chances are better than 50/50- is that they will interpret the constitution literally when it says that electors can be chosen by state legislatures, meaning that the republican legislatures will pass resolutions to send their own electors to congress. Don’t get me wrong - I think it’s constitutionally invalid, but if you’re going to cheat, cheat hard, is what they’re thinking. They’re going to triple down on the “originalist” and “textual” interpretation of the constitution. Who knows, maybe the SCOTUS will endorse such a novel approach in a last-minute lawsuit. I am quite certain that is what they intend to do. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/647 "2020-11-21T01:50:41Z")
I am cross-posting this because it’s beautiful; Ed Norton uses poker terminology, urges Americans to call Trump’s bluff: > ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/648 "2020-11-21T02:15:47Z")
Some Republicans don’t. Some Democrats don’t. We must work together. That is what our country is all about. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/649 "2020-11-21T02:19:13Z")
What do you do when your county loses a war? I’ve often wondered about where French loyalty lay. Do you follow your governement that lost the war and followsthe enemy, or follow what you believe is right? Compare Confederate states under reconstruction. Do you follow the guys who beat you, or continue to with your previous loyaltes? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/650 "2020-11-21T02:23:30Z")
So, as the OP, I have a question: Is this a coup attempt? _Poll ([view on site](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/650))_ Votes are public (I think). Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/651 "2020-11-21T02:36:30Z")
In a statement which pissed off Harry Turtledove, I once argued that Europe was able to develop a social democracy in the 1950s only because two generations of hyper-aggressive white male assholes largely killed themselves off in the two world wars. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/652 "2020-11-21T02:41:51Z")
Why did it piss him off? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/653 "2020-11-21T02:45:19Z")
It’s a pretty vicious, arguably pro-eugenics argument. Effectively I’m saying for manking to improve, sometimes we need to kill a lot of people. Not something one of the Jewish faith wants to hear, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/654 "2020-11-21T03:33:43Z")
One issue that hasn’t been brought up: How do the Electoral Votes get from the various state capitals to whoever gets them in Washington DC? Do they go by registered mail? (I have a vague memory that someone said that.) If so, has anyone considered who’s in charge of the USPS? What are the chances that such an envelope from a state that has an alternate set of EVs will successfully reach its destination unscathed? So I’d hope the Governors of those states send them by courier, someone who they trust. Take no chances on them being “lost in the mail”. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/655 "2020-11-21T03:37:18Z")
I voted “thought it was a coup attempt, and still do,” but really I think it’s “let’s go for a coup attempt — only about a 20% chance we’ll succeed, but even if we don’t, these actions will reap other benefits” — subversion of trust in a Biden presidency, and of democratic norms in general, as well as continued, monetizable allegiance to Trump the person. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/656 "2020-11-21T05:08:55Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > One issue that hasn’t been brought up: How do the Electoral Votes get from the various state capitals to whoever gets them in Washington DC? Do they go by registered mail? Yes (3 U.S.C. 11), and if it does get “lost in the mail” 3 U.S.C. 12 authorizes the President of the Senate (i.e., the Vice President) to request the state’s Secretary of State to resend it, again by registered mail. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/657 "2020-11-21T06:39:52Z")
Authorizes or directs? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/658 "2020-11-21T06:47:38Z")
Dopers aren’t the only people writing about this: > **[Analysis: With silence, GOP enables Trump's risky endgame](https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-elections-coronavirus-pandemic-68b79cf2afe8bebbf8516c1737ebcc91)** > > WASHINGTON (AP) — Republicans in Congress are engaged in a risky but calculated bet that once President Donald Trump has exhausted his legal challenges to the election , he will come to grips with his loss to President-elect Joe Biden. But the... ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/659 "2020-11-21T07:19:32Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > ETA. I can’t imagine that they would show up, have a tour of the White House, tell Trump so sorry but you lost Michigan, and head back home. I couldn’t imagine it either but I do have a glimmer of hope that this is pretty much what they did. [https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/politics/michigan-house-speaker-will-meet-trump/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/politics/michigan-house-speaker-will-meet-trump/index.html) > As legislative leaders, we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan’s electors, just as we have said throughout this election," Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey and Michigan House Speaker Lee Chatfield said in a joint statement after the meeting. > the candidates who win the most votes win elections and Michigan’s electoral votes. These are simple truths that should provide confidence in our elections ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/660 "2020-11-21T10:27:53Z")
Please pardon my ignorance of the history of the US election process, but I figured asking here would be much quicker and more effective than trying to research this question for myself… Has any state, in the past, for any reason (such as perhaps some emergency) overridden the results of the electorate and submitted an opposing set of electoral college votes? IOW: Has the thing Trump is currently attempting, ever actually happened before? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2020, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/661 "2020-11-21T12:00:17Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Has any state, in the past, for any reason (such as perhaps some emergency) overridden the results of the electorate and submitted an opposing set of electoral college votes? > IOW: Has the thing Trump is currently attempting, ever actually happened before? It’s not exactly this situation but in 1876, in three states whose popular vote went to Democrats, the Republican legislatures said there had been fraud and awarded the electors to the Republican. The Electoral College was disputed and the president was chosen by the House of Representatives. This seems to be one of the options the Trump people might be gunning for. This was one of the darkest episodes of American politics. The Democrats agreed to let the Republicans have the presidency. In exchange Reconstruction would end, meaning that the South would re-subjugate recently freed black people in the Jim Crow system, which would last nearly a century. > **[1876 United States presidential election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1876_United_States_presidential_election)** > > Ulysses S. Grant > Republican > Rutherford B. Hayes > Republican via Electoral Commission > The 1876 United States presidential election was the 23rd quadrennial presidential election, held on Tuesday, November 7, 1876. Incumbent Republican president Ulysses S. Grant declined to run for a third term, so the party chose Rutherford B. Hayes, the governor of Ohio, as its nominee. The Democratic Party nominated New York governor Samuel J. Tilden as their nominee. It was one of the most contentious presi... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=34)