# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1162 "2020-12-16T04:18:43Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > And if you listened to Mitch McConnell today, his floor speech wasn’t “the people have spoken;” he said “the electoral college” has spoken. I heard this soundbite (byte?) on the radio, and my reaction was one of exasperated disgust. “The _ **PEOPLE** _ had already spoken six weeks ago.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1163 "2020-12-16T04:33:35Z")
This is relevant and bizarre and scary: > **[Ex-Houston officer accused of assault in bogus fraud claim](https://apnews.com/article/houston-2ec76b7f9d5a4832af08a373ef40cc77)** > > HOUSTON (AP) — A former Houston police captain was charged with assault on Tuesday after running a man off the road and holding him at gunpoint in an effort to prove what authorities have called a bogus voter fraud scheme. > [@](#): > > Mark Aguirre claimed that an air conditioner repairman was the mastermind of a giant voter fraud scheme. Aguirre said the man’s truck was filled with fraudulent ballots when he ran his SUV into it on Oct. 19, according to authorities. > > “The defendant stated (the driver) has approximately seven hundred and fifty thousand fraudulent mail ballots and is using Hispanic children to sign the ballots because the children’s fingerprints would not appear in any databases,” according to an arrest affidavit. > > Aguirre told police he and some friends set up a “command post” at a Marriott hotel in suburban Houston and conducted 24-hour surveillance on the repairman for four days, according to the affidavit. He said he then ran the man’s truck off the road, pointed a gun at him, forced him onto the ground and put a knee on his back, the affidavit said. > > Police who responded to the incident searched the truck and found only air conditioning parts and tools, authorities said. Authorities did not name the truckdriver, who was not hurt. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1164 "2020-12-16T05:09:28Z")
I somehow doubt he has any idea just how much space 750,000 ballots would take up and how much they would weigh. At least of the ballots I had to fill out. That’s one lesson I learned from Square One TV concerning accusing people of having a ridiculous number of something with them. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1165 "2020-12-16T05:10:59Z")
This is pretty much a good summary of the “proof” that Republicans have come up with. A mentally ill doofus who was having some kind of breakdown. I’m sure that this sad tale was somewhere in the Republican court documents somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1166 "2020-12-16T05:51:30Z")
Perhaps you missed this part: > [@](#): > > Police say Aguirre was paid $266,400 by Houston-based Liberty Center for God and Country, a nonprofit organization that is run by GOP party activist Dr. Steven Hotze. > > A [conservative power broker](https://apnews.com/article/bb90ff28b194e130f119e7c1e933e8f9), Hotze unsuccessfully sued to stop the extension of early voting in Texas for this year’s election. He also sued officials in Harris County, where Houston is located, to limit in-person and absentee voting, making allegations without evidence that Democrats were engaged in “ballot harvesting” by gathering votes from individuals who are homeless or elderly. > [@](#): > > Hotze was also part of a group of individuals who unsuccessfully tried to challenge the legality of drive-thru voting in Harris County. > > Jared Woodfill, an attorney for Hotze, said Liberty Center had employed Aguirre’s company and around 20 investigators who were looking into allegations of voter fraud during the election. > > Woodfill said he doesn’t know if Aguirre was working on the investigation at the time of the alleged assault, but that Liberty Center doesn’t approve of such tactics. > > “We would never endorse that, saying go pull someone over, put a gun up to their head and make them open up their truck,” he said. > > Woodfill said he would be “surprised if the allegations were true. That seems out of character for any of the people that would be working under Liberty Center.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1167 "2020-12-16T09:37:11Z")
I really wonder what these people believe is in it for them. Do they think Dear Leader will reward their loyal service? When ever did Dear Leader pay anybody for services rendered? 10 minutes in the limelight before getting thrown under the bus? What is their best-case scenario? Are they just going along for the ride to fleece the rubes? ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1168 "2020-12-16T14:04:40Z")
As is happening over here in the UK, it’s the footballisation of politics: it doesn’t matter how they do it, or what policies they have, MY TEAM MUST WIN, AND SEEING THE ENEMY SUFFER IS THE SWEETEST NECTAR. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1169 "2020-12-16T14:15:26Z")
It’s important to realize that this is indeed a problem for global democracy, not just an American problem. At the risk of being ethnocentric, the one problem I see with America’s total democratic dysfunction is that failure of democracy in the United States is a disastrous turn of events for democracies everywhere. This is not because other countries look at us as some kind of paragon of virtue or democracy - that ship left port long ago and not sure we were ever in the harbor to begin with. But what I see now is the rise of global powers that will make sure that anti-democracy becomes what global governments aspire to become. I’m speaking of China in case I wasn’t clear. China is watching the United States fall. But it won’t just watch; it will help us fall. It will the power void that we leave in our wake. It will manipulate countries like Australia, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea, Canada, and others to fall in line, to be part of their orbit, and pulled out of ours. Sure, as an American, there’s self-interest in my despair. But without someone acting as a bulwark for democratic principles, I worry about what the so-called “free world” looks like in the decades and even centuries ahead (if humanity makes it that far). When the Roman republic collapsed, it took over a thousand years before any civilization of consequence attempted anything approaching a representative form of government again. A millennium of darkness. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1170 "2020-12-16T15:29:25Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > China is watching the United States fall. But it won’t just watch; it will help us fall. Russia is working on it, too. The latest online Republican lunacy, believed by millions, is that he Chinese have ACTUALLY INVADED. There is a Chinese army of between 100,000 and 750,000 men that have invaded through Canada and Mexico; why those nations let them in is unclear, but they have. Last week in either Maine or Michigan, 50,000 of them were killed in an underground fortress by a bunker-busting bomb. In retaliation the Chinese shot down that crashed F-16 in Michigan with a laser weapon. This psychotic nonsense is being heavily pushed online by Russian disinformation agencies. Of COURSE they want American political discourse to break down and of course they want Americans to hate the Chinese, and the Western free world seems to have no way of stopping this, or no interest in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1171 "2020-12-16T15:37:48Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > What is their best-case scenario? It’s some of what @Malden_Capell said - my team must win - but with the added weight of "my political enemies are literally bent on the destruction of my country. They honestly believe Joe Biden is an agent of China. They honestly believe that if Trump doesn’t declare martial law or reveal the fraud then there will never be another fair election again. When you couch all political commentary as a struggle for the survival of the nation, it becomes increasingly difficult to accept a political loss. How can you just let your country be destroyed without taking up arms? And increasing number of people believe this. We will see soon how many truly mean to take action. It’s not entirely clear to me that Trump won’t encourage them to. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1172 "2020-12-16T16:06:35Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > According to the article, what he means is that he is petitioning to join the case as a plaintiff. He’s using the scary word “intervening”, which makes is sound like he plans to try to direct the Court on what to do or something, or make them conclude what he wants. Amusingly, and just like Trump, if he succeeded in intervening to become the plaintiff, he would have prevented the Supreme Court from having original jurisdiction, and thus prevented them from being able to hear the case. DUMBASS! Thanks for the link, **Snowboarder\_Bo**. > [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > After Charlottesville, would we consider [this](https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/protests/proud-boys-burn-black-lives-matter-flag-from-oldest-methodist-church-in-dc/65-623e8867-e61d-4238-b6d6-06bd754c2636) the next thing? Maybe not as large and orchestrated, but still making those fascist inroads… Fits right in with what I said: > [@Irishman](#): > > This normalization of hatred is scary. People are already being run over by cars. Next will be shootings - oh wait, we’ve seen that, too. Next will be actual riots - not a crowd of upset and unruly people doing some vandalism and looting, and throwing objects at police. I mean the Trumpers who have already driven through protests shooting paintballs and pepper spray marching into crowds of BLM supporters to bust heads, and actions like the Charlottesville episode occur, but widespread and repeating across the country. > [@asahi](#): > > What’s even more dangerous than a cunning master “plan” is the normalization of political conspiracy theories and alternative truth. [snip], but what’s worse is if you believe polls, 80% of the 74 million who voted for Trump believe that what Republicans have done is perfectly legitimate and that Biden is not the legitimate president. We’re not talking about a fringe group; we’re talking about most people who voted for a candidate who lost, but came frighteningly close to winning, and close to winning within the well-established, agreed-upon rules of the game. Yep, way too many regular citizens have bought hook, line, and sinker the conspiracist nonsense from the right wing media, Trump, and foreign manipulators. How did we get this far down the rabbit hole? It didn’t happen in just 4 years. This is the end result of the last 30+ years of right wing media distortion, lies, and craziness. This is the Vince Foster murder ramped to 11. This is the progression of conservatism through the Tea Party. The Republicans have been feeding this beast for so long, they lost track of the fact that it is a monster. Well, the monster has taken over the party. Now McConnell is stuck in the precarious position of trying to reel in the madness that he’s let run wild. I’m afraid he’s going to find his leash is broken and he’s just holding the handle of a severed string. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This is relevant and bizarre and scary: And another incident to add to the CT list of things the Dems have covered up. > [@The\_Librarian](#): > > I really wonder what these people believe is in it for them. Do they think Dear Leader will reward their loyal service? When ever did Dear Leader pay anybody for services rendered? 10 minutes in the limelight before getting thrown under the bus? > > What is their best-case scenario? If you are talking about the likes of Aguirre, he’s been deluded into thinking the Dems will do _anything_ to steal the election. He thinks he’s a patriot. If you mean Hotze and the Liberty Center for God and Country, it’s pure partisanship and power. He wants the conservatives to win no matter what. He doesn’t really care if it’s Trump or Pence or McConnell or Ivanka, he wants Republicans in power. And yes, I’m aware of the irony of saying Aguirre is deluded for thinking the same thing about the Democrats that I then say about the Republicans. The difference is that the basis for my opinion doesn’t rely on 750,000 fraudulent mail ballots signed by Hispanic children being hauled around in an air conditioner repairman’s van. > [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > MY TEAM MUST WIN, AND SEEING THE ENEMY SUFFER IS THE SWEETEST NECTAR. Yep, the whole “Liberal Tears” meme. > [@asahi](#): > > China is watching the United States fall. But it won’t just watch; it will help us fall. It will the power void that we leave in our wake. It will manipulate countries like Australia, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea, Canada, and others to fall in line, to be part of their orbit, and pulled out of ours. Sure, just like Putin and Russia have been doing in Europe and the Middle East. Trump’s “America First” policy has destroyed America’s leadership role and handed much of that power to Putin. China is thrilled to have the opportunity in the Pacific. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1173 "2020-12-16T16:27:01Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Yep, way too many regular citizens have bought hook, line, and sinker the conspiracist nonsense from the right wing media, Trump, and foreign manipulators. How did we get this far down the rabbit hole? It didn’t happen in just 4 years. This is the end result of the last 30+ years of right wing media distortion, lies, and craziness. This is the Vince Foster murder ramped to 11. This is the progression of conservatism through the Tea Party. As much as I want to credit the “good” Republicans like the Lincoln project and the Bushes and Karl Roves for quietly not supporting the right wing revolution, I really can’t say that they are appreciably better. For one thing, the insanity began during their period of misrule. They were elected and re-elected, they took the presidency and the congress while riding on the backs of Limbaugh, AM radio, and Fox News. They didn’t have a problem with exploiting the Vince Foster murder conspiracy theories; they actually amplified them and simply shrugged and said that “It’s just politics.” And even now, what are they doing? They’re supporting Republicans in their senate efforts in Georgia. You cannot argue that Republicans are horribly wrong to enable an autocratic-minded president on one hand and then turn around and fund the campaigns of their enablers on the other – not unless you basically subscribe to the same tenets. It’s almost as if the “good” republicans themselves don’t truly find the attacks on democracy all that distasteful, but just wish they were less blatant about it and had more etiquette. It reminds me of the kinder, gentler country club racist who has enough decency not to use the n-word around his butler but still gasps at the thought of having a black or brown person actually becoming a member of the club. My conclusion is this: there are no good republicans. You cannot be an honorable Nazi. You cannot be a good apparatchik. You just can’t. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1174 "2020-12-16T16:28:16Z")
Sadly, we have come to learn over the past four years is that America didn’t beat the fascists in WW2, America just beat the Germans. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1175 "2020-12-16T16:33:59Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Sure, just like Putin and Russia have been doing in Europe and the Middle East. Trump’s “America First” policy has destroyed America’s leadership role and handed much of that power to Putin. China is thrilled to have the opportunity in the Pacific. I honestly think people within the Trump administration were paid off to look the other way while Russia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and other countries conducted their political transactions in the Middle East. But going back to China for a moment, look at how they’re really beginning to flex their muscles now with Australia. Look also at how Japan is increasingly striking a conciliatory tone with China, which is not to say that both countries have forgotten the past, but I do get the sense that Japan is beginning to see the writing on the wall: the US is increasingly a paper tiger in Asia. It can’t even win wars against rag tag armies in Iraq and Afghanistan, so how is it going to stand up to a rising superpower that will soon have the largest GDP in the world and lots of money to buy military toys? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1176 "2020-12-16T16:35:28Z")
A North Carolina state Senator is urging Trump [to declare a national emergency, invoke the Insurrection Act and suspend habeas corpus](https://www.wral.com/nc-senator-ok-with-suspending-civil-liberties-in-wake-of-trump-s-defeat/19431251/). But don’t worry, he assures us that, "I’m not nuts. … I’m not a conspiracy theory person. I don’t like them. I don’t like conspiracy theories at all. But something is going on here that’s bigger than meets the eye.” He then offered, unprompted, to take a psychiatric evaluation. He also offers the indelible quote that, "These boobs are waking up.” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1177 "2020-12-16T16:38:31Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > He also offers the indelible quote that, "These boobs are waking up.”- That fairly BEGS to be made into a t-shirt… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1178 "2020-12-16T16:40:09Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > "I’m not nuts. … I’m not a conspiracy theory person. I don’t like them. I don’t like conspiracy theories at all. But something is going on here that’s bigger than meets the eye.” Just wait until conspiracy theorists discover they’re part of a conspiracy to use conspiracy theorists to spread disinformation through conspiracy theories. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1179 "2020-12-16T16:45:57Z")
That’s just what they want you to think! ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1180 "2020-12-16T17:12:30Z")
He seems perky. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1181 "2020-12-16T17:57:27Z")
… in a pointed sort of way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=60)