# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 71
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1402 "2020-12-21T06:18:23Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > As has been pointed out, the things that he is suggesting they do, such as organize and hold an election, I have no expectation Trump would ever follow through on THAT part of the plan. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1403 "2020-12-21T06:20:15Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Every time a republican has been put in the position of deciding between Trump and action, they choose action. Sorry, I think you’re in the wrong universe. This is U-2047346, the one where republicans either consented or feigned ignorance about everything that Trump has said or done (or they themselves have been a party to the corruption), and blocked every attempt to hold him accountable even when lives have been at stake. Please take me back with you to your universe. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1404 "2020-12-21T08:29:19Z")
Be careful! Make sure it’s not a fascist dystopia or full of cronenbergs or something before you commit eh. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1405 "2020-12-21T13:35:22Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I think some here are saying a coup wouldn’t be successful so we have nothing to worry about. I think that what is being said in this thread is that a coup will not be successful, so we don’t have to worry about a coup. I think that we all acknowledge, however, that the country is in a precarious position, and we do have quite a bit to worry about. > [@Mijin](#): > > However, at this stage, I’m _am_ starting to lean towards expecting violence Probably > [@Mijin](#): > > some kind of constitutional crisis in the next few weeks. I think that we are already in one. > [@Mijin](#): > > it _is_ the time to worry. Yes, but we need to worry about the things that are likely, and not fret about the things that are unlikely to come to pass. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1406 "2020-12-21T13:46:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I think that we are already in one. As it stands the Constitution is functioning, so it’s not a crisis. Where a crisis could arise is on January 6. It is inevitable that a bunch of Trumpist morons in Congress will file objections to slates of electors. What will then happen is the two houses will vote, and it is just as inevitable that the House of Reps will shoot the objection down, killing it; it’s 99% likely the Senate will too. So that should work fine, too. A crisis could still arise though - Mike Pence could fuck with the process somehow, let’s say. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1407 "2020-12-21T14:29:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I have no expectation Trump would ever follow through on THAT part of the plan. That _is_ the plan: declare martial law and have the armed forces carry out new elections in the disputed states. Even Trump isn’t thinking of deploying the military to occupy the entire United States by force. (Well, maybe he’s thinking it, but that’s not the current plan.) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1408 "2020-12-21T14:37:33Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It’s very worrying that the Joint Chiefs head Mark Milley initially went along with the June 1 Lafayette Park incident, gassing peaceful protesters at the order (essentially) of the photo-op seeking Trump.\* It’s good, of course, that he later thought better of it. But his first instinct was that it was okay. Here’s the thing: I don’t think General Milley acted with malice; I think he was responding to an order from his Commander in Chief. That’s the point that needs to be emphasized and cannot be emphasized enough – it doesn’t necessarily require bad actors to create a legitimate domestic and constitutional crisis that involves the military. All that is really required is for a corrupt regime to misuse the military. The question “Who or what is stopping them?” is a very legitimate question to ask. Not because I assume that the military officers are nefarious actors who would deliberately subvert democracy and the Constitution, but rather because they could find themselves in an ambiguous or unprecedented situation that their training didn’t really prepare them for, precisely because they’re being used in ways that are foreign to them, and unprecedented by any presidential administration in their lifetime. In cases where top generals have been instructed to carry out orders that clearly conflict with their training and principles, I would expect them to resign like General Mattis and perhaps others have. But in a bureaucracy as large as the U.S. military, it’s entirely possible (if not inevitable) that you’ll find some who would carry out the orders of their president, in the same way that Richard Nixon found a Robert Bork. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1409 "2020-12-21T14:47:15Z")
And if he does, that, too, would be shot down as a farce. However, at the same time, it creates confusion; it sows doubts. It makes more people question what the truth is. And that is really the ultimate likely consequence from Trump and the Republican party’s attacks on democracy. They will lead many to doubt that their political system really works. Joe Biden will be sworn in on January 20, but what kind of country is he going to inherit? He’ll inherit a country that is terribly ill and that has been ravaged by a pandemic. He may very well inherit a vaccine rollout that is riddled with problems, sowing doubts on the government’s - now his government’s - ability to do good for the common person. There will be a national health emergency, and a national economic emergency. And the Republicans are working overtime to ensure that there is perceived to be a national political emergency at the same time. And if that wasn’t already bad enough, we have the very real possibility that Russia may attempt to wage total misinformation warfare against us to keep us divided and off-balance. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1410 "2020-12-21T15:03:16Z")
**The Batshit Rebellion** The militias are a time bomb that is perhaps set to go off on 6 Jan. Militiamen are rebels with personal grievances. All are different, united only by their need to rebel. For the first time in history a cadre of rebels-without-a-clue has free access to military grade weapons, information and communication. An ambiguous call to action - Stop the Steal - by Trump, could trigger the militias to occupy federal property. There is no strategy to counter or goal to oppose. It’s just rebellion, there are no terms to negotiate. The result would be both tragic and comedic. It’s likely that more than one Fed-Ex office would be occupied. Responding to such a rebellion presents a plethora of legal and administrative problems. The result of a dozen groups occupying targets in each of thirty states would be chaotic. Trump could easily invoke martial law, then sit alone in his room, fondling his favorite toy and watching as it all unfolds on TV. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1411 "2020-12-21T16:59:01Z")
Pertinent… for 2 days: > **[Attorney General Barr: No reason to name special counsels to investigate...](https://share.smartnews.com/dho7)** > > Attorney General William Barr distanced himself from President Donald Trump by saying he saw no cause for appointing special counsels to investigate Joe Biden's son Hunter. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1412 "2020-12-21T17:10:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That _is_ the plan: declare martial law and have the armed forces carry out new elections in the disputed states Oh, I believe he’d try that first part. But after that, well, the “election” might just be so inconvenient. Or phony. After all, the military doesn’t know how to run an election, so it’d take awhile for them to set all that up and maybe Trump just wouldn’t get around to ordering them to actually do it. There’s other things to do to MAGA, yanno? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1413 "2020-12-21T17:37:22Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Pertinent… for 2 days: > > [https://share.smartnews.com/dho7](https://share.smartnews.com/dho7) I think there is at least a 50/50 chance Trump will order his acting AG to indict or arrest Hunter Biden or appoint a special prosecutor. I’ve seen hints that was part of the reason Barr resigned. I’m curious how many more acting AGs Trump will have to go through before one listens to him. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1414 "2020-12-21T17:37:32Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > There will be Trumpists who will never agree that Biden won (but then there are still Dopers who go on about the 2000 election). I’m a little late here, but this is the falsest of false equivalencies. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1415 "2020-12-21T18:46:34Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I’m curious how many more acting AGs Trump will have to go through before one listens to him. I bet not many. He seems to have a talent for hiring only the best toadies and conspiracy theorists. Early on he didn’t seem to realize that he would need 100% sycophants, not just hardcore righties, to do some of what he wanted. Now he seems to realize what sort of person he needs to get for total loyalty to him. He doesn’t seem to notice that what he’s looking for are disgraced extremists who look ridiculous to non-extremists on the outside, but there you go. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1416 "2020-12-21T19:06:24Z")
Barr’s really giving Trump the finger on his way out. . . ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1417 "2020-12-21T19:06:27Z")
Don’t worry, he’ll have totally fair elections organized in two weeks. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1418 "2020-12-21T19:06:40Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > They all try to draw a parallel to the Democratic hope that the electoral college would somehow put Clinton in the office. I dont know _any_ of my fellow Dems who thought that, least of whom was Hillary who conceded fairly early. Bush vs Gore was the only serious attempt, and that was completely reasonable. One state, less than a 1000 votes, many, many irregularities. Note that the Dems didnt call it _fraud,_ just “voting irregularities” which was totally true. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1419 "2020-12-21T19:08:23Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Another is 100% convinced Biden is stealing the election. He’s simply unable to think otherwise. He posts every conspiracy theory Newsmax has to offer, with complete sincerity, and seems to be itching for the civil war that is to come. Oh, he also thinks Covid is a hoax, and vaccinations will track you. As i have posted many times, they listen to conservative talk radio and get brainwashed. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1420 "2020-12-21T19:09:54Z")
Translation: Barr’s idea of “revenge” is a prosecutor that flies straight. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1421 "2020-12-21T19:12:38Z")
Maybe some experienced lawyers can help us out, but if Trump said “I want that sonofabitch Hunter Biden in handcuffs!” what exactly would be the procedure for filing a criminal prosecution? Is this something that attorney general does or can this be ordered personally at his/her direction? Doesn’t the AG then have to go through certain channels and require the cooperation of actual prosecuting lawyers within the Dept? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=70) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=72)