# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1422 "2020-12-21T19:25:43Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > he militias are a time bomb that is perhaps set to go off on 6 Jan. Militiamen are rebels with personal grievances. All are different, united only by their need to rebel. For the first time in history a cadre of rebels-without-a-clue has free access to military grade weapons, i They are out of shape couch warriors with no guts. They aint gonna do nuttin. They have no access to “military grade weapons”. They have semi-auto rifles. Nothing fully automatic, nothing crew served. And you are totally wrong about "first time in history " since since the M16 and M15 select fire weapons, this is the _first time in history_ where the populace _didn’t_ have access to the standard infantry long gun. The Musket of 1776, 1812, and the Civil war was pretty much what the civilian hunter used. The bolt action rifles of WW1 and WW2 were pretty much the same as what the civilian hunter used. Now the infantry carries select fire fully automatic weapons, which are not generally available to civilians. Yes, the AR15 _looks like_ the M16, but it does not have fully automatic capabilities… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1423 "2020-12-21T19:32:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > Another is 100% convinced Biden is stealing the election. He’s simply unable to think otherwise. He posts every conspiracy theory Newsmax has to offer, with complete sincerity, and seems to be itching for the civil war that is to come. Oh, he also thinks Covid is a hoax, and vaccinations will track you. > > As i have posted many times, they listen to conservative talk radio and get brainwashed. It’s crazy how passively listening to nonsense can turn a good person into seething garbage. But here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1424 "2020-12-21T19:32:53Z")
What Republican/conservative has taken action that has furthered Trump’s plans? I’m not talking about the inane blathering. What judge has ruled in his favor? What governor or SoS has invalidated votes? What assembly has overturned the electors? To my knowledge the closest example is the michigan GOP official who refused to certify Detroit’s vote but he was still overruled. There’s been no sniff of real change. We need to differentiate between the (mostly) meaningless hot air and tangible action. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1425 "2020-12-21T19:58:24Z")
Trump’s plans include making millions of people think Democrats have overturned democracy and stolen the election. The vast majority of elected Republicans have helped further that. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1426 "2020-12-21T20:01:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They are out of shape couch warriors with no guts. - On the contrary. Many of them have an excess of gut. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1427 "2020-12-21T20:15:34Z")
I would like to hear more about this also. I’m pretty sure trump will manage to get someone in there after Barr steps down who will order a partisan special prosecutor to look into the Bidens. I’m not sure that trump can just order an outright arrest unless he and those around him just decide to go full fascist. Hopefully if that happens there would be enough people in charge to prevent an arrest without evidence of illegality. But I’m pretty sure they will get a special prosecutor to run around and hint at conspiracies. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1428 "2020-12-21T20:43:20Z")
Even so, I think they’d still need to get a grand jury to indict him. There were rumors that the DOJ had tried to charge Andrew McCabe on whatever grievance Trump drummed up against him, but they could never get a grand jury to buy into the bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1429 "2020-12-21T23:39:49Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@Sherrerd](#): > > > > What we don’t know is how many in the officer class, who possess the personal credibility with their troops to impose ‘no, we won’t take part in a coup,’ are personally on the side of civilian rule. > > I would guess, in any actively conscious sense, a minority. > > The military is authoritarian by nature. Pretending the U.S. military is an exception to that is American exceptionalist bullshit. They’re not, and it is wholly plausible that if given a rationalization, they’d go along with martial law. I think this is plausible. If people with such tendencies consume nothing but news that tells them a President is Great, and Unfairly Persecuted, and that Their Country needs them to step up and stop those who are the Enemies of the State…then it’s quite possible that they will feel the honorable thing to do, as military professionals, is whatever that President asks them to do. \ > [@Colibri](#): > > > [@RickJay](#): > > > > They’re not, and it is wholly plausible that if given a rationalization, they’d go along with martial law. > > A rationalization would be a foreign invasion, an **insurrection** , or a natural disaster. None of the Trump’s nonsense provides anything approaching a rationalization for martial law. As has been pointed out, the things that he is suggesting they do, such as organize and hold an election, are not things that are under the military’s purview. It’s like ordering them to open a chain of bingo parlors. My bolding. This argument is basically ‘we all know what the norms are and the norms will hold.’ Of course I hope that’s true. But norms have been flagrantly (and infamously) violated by Trump and his allies for several years, now. The military members who are of a mind to support Trump have ample “evidence” that insurrection is a serious problem right now, and that it is their duty to oppose it. _Everyone they listen to is telling them exactly that._ Why would they doubt everyone they listen to? A search using only two words, “insurrection” and “Republican,” turned up three million hits, with plenty at the top from recent days. Republican office-holders nationwide are telling their audience that insurrection is a serious problem and that patriots must arise to deal with it: > [@](#): > > State Sen. Bob Steinburg (R) reportedly called for the president to invoke the act and declare the results of the 2020 election invalid in a Facebook post paraphrasing retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney, writing “President Trump must declare a national emergency” and adding that “Trump should also invoke the Insurrection Act.” > > In an interview with Raleigh news station WRAL, Steinburg said initially that he was “putting out there options that others say still remain on the table” … “If that’s what needs to be done, if there are people who have been identified as folks who are suspected of high crimes and misdemeanors, who are threatening the very security and foundation of our nation … for whatever period of time it takes to round them up, then yes," he said of the plan. > > During the interview, he also reportedly suggested that justices on the Supreme Court refused to hear two cases brought by pro-Trump attorneys in the hopes of overturning the election results due to fear of blackmail … [https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/530420-republican-nc-state-senator-trump-should-invoke-the-insurrection-act](https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/530420-republican-nc-state-senator-trump-should-invoke-the-insurrection-act) \ > [@](#): > > … in the minds of some authoritarian-leaning and conspiracy-minded Trump supporters, the Insurrection Act has become a needed step to prevent President-elect Joe Biden from assuming the presidency. Their evidence-deficient reasoning: Democrats illegally rigged the election and are attempting a coup, and Trump must send in the troops to undo this conspiracy. > > The conviction shows how hard-edged MAGA ideology has become in the wake of Trump’s election loss. While scattered theories about a “deep state” arrayed against Trump have long circulated in MAGA circles, calls for troops to stop a democratically elected president from taking office have taken those ideas to a more conspiratorial and militaristic level. … in June, GOP Sen. Tom Cotton brought the idea of the Insurrection Act into the national dialogue with a New York Times op-ed that called on Trump to invoke the law in response to rioting that was occurring amid largely peaceful protests over racial justice. … > **[MAGA leaders call for the troops to keep Trump in office](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/18/trump-insurrection-act-presidency-447986)** > > A growing call to invoke the Insurrection Act shows how hard-edged MAGA ideology has become in the wake of Trump’s election loss. It’s all over the media landscape. Those of us who don’t look at right-wing media are simply unaware of how widespread the idea of Trump sending troops to stop Biden’s inauguration actually is. But many in the US military are very aware of it. As far as they know, it’s mainstream thought. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1430 "2020-12-21T23:49:49Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It’s all over the media landscape. Those of us who don’t look at right-wing media are simply unaware of how widespread the idea of Trump sending troops to stop Biden’s inauguration actually is. > > But many in the US military are very aware of it. As far as they know, it’s mainstream thought. I just looked on [Foxnews.com](http://Foxnews.com) and didn’t see anything pushing for Trump to use the military (albeit a quick search). In a nation of 300 million I’m sure there are a non-trivial number of whackos pushing for it. Are there any prominent Democrats sounding the alarm? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1431 "2020-12-21T23:54:49Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Are there any prominent Democrats sounding the alarm? What, that conspiracy theories are a major part of the right-wing media diet? Sure. It’s been pointed out by many. (A good recent book on the topic is _Hoax: Donald Trump, Fox News and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth._) But Democrats are not the side that favors government censorship of opinion, so as far as I know there are no reputable elected Dem officials saying ‘shut down FoxNews, shut down Facebook.’ ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1432 "2020-12-22T02:41:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Now the infantry carries select fire fully automatic weapons, which are not generally available to civilians. Yes, the AR15 _looks like_ the M16, but it does not have fully automatic capabilities… This is either a joke or really missing the point. Like I say, no-one is worried that the proud boys will defeat the US military. We’re concerned about potential unrest and casualties. Anyway, combat is not like some video game where a level 40 fighter is essentially invincible vs a level 10…an AR-15 can kill any human just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1433 "2020-12-22T02:45:31Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > What Republican/conservative has taken action that has furthered Trump’s plans? I’m not talking about the inane blathering. What judge has ruled in his favor? What governor or SoS has invalidated votes? What assembly has overturned the electors? To my knowledge the closest example is the michigan GOP official who refused to certify Detroit’s vote but he was still overruled. There’s been no sniff of real change. > > We need to differentiate between the (mostly) meaningless hot air and tangible action. What you actually said was, that republicans have consistently chosen “action over Trump”. So it’s not on me to talk about what actions they’ve taken to further Trump’s aims (though I would agree with [Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan) that verbally backing him up is damaging enough), but on you to say what actions they’ve supposedly taken to block him. On the point about the judiciary, yes they’ve generally done a good job. It’s a bit of stretch to include them in “republicans” though; they are not supposed to be partisan regardless of who appointed them. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1434 "2020-12-22T03:10:44Z")
_A new FOX news poll finds that 42% of voters say history will remember President Donald Trump as one of the worst presidents ever…while 22% say one of the greatest…_ I’ll bet that 99% of the 22% are Republicans. That aligns with my general feeling, that about 25% of the country think Trump, or any Republican, is or was a great President no matter what they did or did not do. Nothing will ever change their minds. Same thing for Democratic Presidents, let’s not pretend that the left does not have its fair share of deplorables. The only problem there is a lack of data. There are many ways one could criticize the Obama administration. But nothing to even compare with the long list of horrors that have happened under Trump, not just policy or lack thereof but the shamelss graft . With demonstratable facts to support that for any who doesn’t believe in alternative facts. But if Hillary had been President for the past four years and done everything Trump has done, I would bet her numbers would be about the same. A certain percentage of Democrats would make excuses - COVID wasn’t her fault, she really did not want to alarm people, Hilllary was the one who worked tirelessly on health care for all of us, she had the best interest of the American People in mind. Well, hell, I am all over the place now. Maybe should start a new thread. My original intent here was to ask about how much influence FOX News has in this country. I looked up the numbers recently and was surprised. The highest rated show is Hannity. Want to guess the number of viewers? less than 5 million Much less than I had thought. And even if every one of them passes on what they have learned to a family member, co-worker or friend and those people believe every word, that is 25 million people. Close to my estimate of the number of deplorables. Ann Hedonia, check my math again. Maybe I am subconsciously choosing the number of people who don’t watch FOX but who make their decisions based on their “politically informed and smart” friend or family member. Maybe every Hannity viewer (or Sucker Carlson or Lying Laura, although anyone watching one is watching the others) convince 10 people, now we are up to 50 million voters who vote because of FOX. That leaves 20 million who voted for Trump just becase they aren’t paying a lot of attention. Biden is socialist, Trump will save democracy, and "Hey, I’m doing just as well as I was when Trump was elected, or at least not much worse, what is so bad about him? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1435 "2020-12-22T03:13:49Z")
Perhaps so, but the large magazine semi-automatic weapons are adequate for paramilitary use. They are a psychological prop that motivates their owners. Of course these clowns do not pose a threat to our military, but they are emboldened to pose a threat to the society at large. Consider that a committed revolutionary has modern ammunition for his fast firing weapon, multiple drones for real time surveillance of surroundings and targets, a laptop PC with instant access to weather and communication, a cell phone with reliable national coverage and a rugged vehicle with GPS navigation. Compared to a jeep, a paper map, an M1 and a walkie talkie I’d say my statement holds up very well. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1436 "2020-12-22T03:42:51Z")
Yep, and now I am worried as hell again. I’ve spent time here arguing that Trump is not going to declare martial law supported by the military, but damn the possibility of serious violence still remains. That is the real danger and “let’s see what happens” on or just after Jan 6. But I still think it would be by a few lone nuts, like the would be kidnappers of Whitman. And even they weren’t going to kill her. The leaders of the major militia groups are not idiots. Many are very intelligent and skilled in military tactics and know about the history of revolution. They know they are not going to start a civil war with Trump as the leader. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1437 "2020-12-22T03:44:12Z")
I’m not the greatest writer so maybe it’s on me but you didn’t quote my whole statement. What I said was “when put in the position of deciding between Trump and action” they choose the correct action. When forced to decide, Republicans/conservatives have (so far) always sided on the side of democracy. Trump is, what, 1-for-55 in the courts? All of the Republican governors and legislatures have rejected his overtures. Those are actions that have blocked Trump. Can you give one example of a Republican who’s action invalidated any votes? I don’t know of any. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1438 "2020-12-22T04:05:39Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I’m not the greatest writer so maybe it’s on me but you didn’t quote my whole statement. What I said was “when put in the position of deciding between Trump and action” they choose the correct action. When forced to decide, Republicans/conservatives have (so far) always sided on the side of democracy. Trump is, what, 1-for-55 in the courts? Firstly, I don’t see how this new clarification supposedly adds anything or implies I misunderstood you. Your original quote, that I was responding to, was “Every time a **republican** has been put in the position of deciding between Trump and action, they choose action.”. I’ve added the emphasis because it was not “republicans/conservatives”. So, secondly, what the judiciary has done is still irrelevant. Judges do not (or at least aren’t supposed to) represent Republicans. > [@Deeg](#): > > All of the Republican governors and legislatures have rejected his overtures. Those are actions that have blocked Trump. I wouldn’t call that taking action though, that’s just not being a party to the plot. And it’s not true in all cases (as your “every time” would suggest). e.g. 106 members of congress and attorneys general signed the ridiculous texas lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1439 "2020-12-22T04:31:00Z")
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’ll panic when Republicans actually get votes reversed. So far the Republicans actually in charge of the vote have protected democracy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1440 "2020-12-22T05:16:27Z")
Where does Trump fit in your Venn-diagram of “Republicans actually in charge”? Doesn’t that kinda invalidate your point? Who where those people from Texas bringing that lawsuit to the SCOTUS? Would I offend your idealized idea of “Republicans actually in charge” when I would call those “Republicans”? Or is being a state AG not constitute “in charge” enough? Are they just a couple of yahoos? Who are you trying to convince here? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2020, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1441 "2020-12-22T05:55:22Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > This is either a joke or really missing the point. Neither. **It is fighting ignorance.** Cranes post continued a couple errors about guns and the military. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=71) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=73)