# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 77
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1523 "2020-12-23T16:34:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Can anyone or any group overrule him on this? The only thing that can be done is for enough Republican senators to leave the Republican Caucus and caucus with the Democrats so that the Democrats can choose the majority leader. Collins has shown over and over again that it is more important to her to stick with the Republican Caucus than it is for her to advance policies that she supposedly favors. To be fair, most legislators most of the time will vote with their caucuses to establish the house’s leadership. But Collins’s whole persona is based on her being a principled independent. But she never uses her power in a way that actually advances that persona in any practical way. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1524 "2020-12-23T16:35:51Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > > [@flurb](#): > > > > > > … the VP sitting as President of the Senate could simply abandon the precedent that the Majority Leader is always recognized first to offer motions and allow another Senator to offer a motion to proceed to the bill in question. However, Republican Senators would be loathe to go along with this new precedent … > > > > Yeah, we know those Republicans are sticklers when it comes to respecting norms and precedents. Harris should definitely not do this. /s > > Coming from a Westminster-based country, it is utterly mind-boggling to imagine that the Opposition wouldn’t be able to bring motions to the floor and force the Government to vote on them. Allowing one party total control over the agenda is antithetical to the functioning of a deliberative body. How about allowing one person total control over the appointment of every federal judge for 10 straight years (and counting)? ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1525 "2020-12-23T16:43:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Ziberian](#): > > > > that thought $600 was a perfectly reasonable sum to get people through a year of COVID. > > Do note there was a earlier $1200. And it all depends, for some that is not enuf, for others it’s just fine, and for a few, it’s beer money- if they even drink beer. So, a total of $1800 over 10 months – if the $600 happens, which Trump has made iffy. A nice windfall for those not in need of money, but for anyone who genuinely needs help, it’s not even close to enough to cover rent, or food, or car payments, or any other common expense for more than a minute. Especially when it’s compared to the trillions to, for example, Joel Osteen. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1526 "2020-12-23T16:48:23Z")
Anybody remember this incident ? > **[UN criticises Trump's pardons for Blackwater guards jailed over Iraq killings](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55424397)** > > Four American contractors were jailed over the killing of 14 Iraqi civilians in Baghdad in 2007. I do. With horror. You just have to wonder whether DJT might think pardoning these contractors (with whom regular military had a complicated relationship) might endear him to current military members who – in his fever dreams – he may decide to call upon to enforce Martial Law. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1527 "2020-12-23T17:12:08Z")
I think you’ll find the overt politicizing of the judiciary is not really a thing in extant Westminster-system countries. It could be, I suppose, but it isn’t. Part of that may be due to the relatively greater ease the legislatures in such systems have in overruling the courts. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1528 "2020-12-23T17:18:19Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > So, a total of $1800 over 10 months – if the $600 happens, which Trump has made iffy. A nice windfall for those not in need of money, but for anyone who genuinely needs help, it’s not even close to enough to cover rent, or food, or car payments, or any other common expense for more than a minute. This. I’ve griped about this to friends and some will recite the stupid platitude, “Well, it’s better than nothing.” No, it’s not. It’s the _same_ as nothing. For a family where the parent/s is/are out of work, no health insurance, paltry savings, a few kids, it’s the exact same thing as nothing. In my pre-retirement line of work, fund-raising, I called this (cynically) the “kiss-off” gift. You go to a major corporation for a big donation, and they throw $1,000 at you to get rid of you. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1529 "2020-12-23T17:20:44Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Coming from a Westminster-based country, it is utterly mind-boggling to imagine that the Opposition wouldn’t be able to bring motions to the floor and force the Government to vote on them. Allowing one party total control over the agenda is antithetical to the functioning of a deliberative body. The Senate could easily re-write its rules to allow the minority to bring votes to the floor. At the start of every Congress, the Senate and the House of Representatives both have to agree on their rules. So every two years, there’s an opportunity to change that. It’s particularly strange for the Senate, which purports to have this tradition of giving each senator extraordinary senatorial privileges—such as the ability to anonymously put a hold on any legislation, or the filibuster. You would think that under this principal, senators would insist on the right of each individual senator to bring a motion to the floor for a vote. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1530 "2020-12-23T19:16:14Z")
Unless of course Harris is Chair. Or the floor overrules him. See, the Majority Leader is not supposed to be a one man dictator of the senate. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1531 "2020-12-23T19:18:24Z")
**What\_Exit Mod Trainee 3rd Class** **Modhat** : “Please end the gun hijack of the thread. If you want to talk guns, start a new thread and probably not in P&E.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1532 "2020-12-23T19:21:31Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Under Senate precedents, the Majority Leader decides what comes to the floor and when. Because by tradition, the President pro tem always recognizes him first. Should Harris sit as Chair, the President pro tem has nothing to do. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1533 "2020-12-23T19:29:49Z")
**Modnote** : Drop the gun sidebar please. It is not a part of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1534 "2020-12-23T19:32:49Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Thanks. IOW it’s Mitch’s ball game and nuttin’ gets voted on unless he says so, even if the Dems get their piddling 51 votes. No, not at all. If the Dems get 51 votes, then Mitch is no longer the Senate Majority leader. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1535 "2020-12-23T19:52:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Because by tradition, the President pro tem always recognizes him first. Should Harris sit as Chair, the President pro tem has nothing to do. We had this conversation in another thread. I will concede that were Harris to break the precedent of recognizing the Senate Majority Leader first AND was supported procedurally by a majority of Senators in doing so, she could probably get away with it. But I cannot imagine a single Republican Senator going along with this. You wouldn’t just be ignoring precedent for one popular bill or nomination – you’d be removing that precedent for all time. You would effectively be handing control of the chamber over to the Vice President in perpetuity. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1536 "2020-12-23T20:44:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, not at all. If the Dems get 51 votes, then Mitch is no longer the Senate Majority leader. 🤦🏽‍♀️ Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1537 "2020-12-23T20:45:10Z")
Should there someday be a Republican vice president and a Democratic senate, do you think that VP would be bound by the existing precedent? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1538 "2020-12-23T21:07:05Z")
Precedent is precedent until it isn’t. But I think this whole conjecture is pointless. If Republicans maintain a majority of seats after the Georgia runoffs, Mitch McConnell will be Majority Leader. If for some reason Harris tried to break with the precedent of recognizing the Majority Leader first, every Republican would vote to overrule her. And since they’d have the majority, they would win. And if she tried some other shit (say not recognizing the motion to overrule the chair), they would walk out and shut down the Senate — Constitutionally the Senate must have a quorum (51 Senators) to conduct any business. There just isn’t some magic maneuver to wrest control out of McConnell’s hands as long as his caucus is unified behind him. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1539 "2020-12-23T21:14:43Z")
Even if they end up getting $2000 - which they likely won’t - it’s too late for many. Nice to know that Republicans in the Senate have better things to do than to make sure that small businesses survive and that renters have a roof over their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1540 "2020-12-24T00:59:11Z")
…but, but, [Rand Paul says it’s nothing but free money,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_bogzQ-K0U) and stuff. I really don’t expect anyone to be masochistic enough to actually sit through the whole fucking thing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1541 "2020-12-24T01:21:59Z")
How does Rand feel about Tax Incentives for Yachts? All peachy keen with those, I bet. [https://www.gmyachts.com/2019/07/31/tax-incentives-for-yacht-purchases-until-2022/](https://www.gmyachts.com/2019/07/31/tax-incentives-for-yacht-purchases-until-2022/) ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1542 "2020-12-24T04:23:02Z")
To hopefully cap off this not-coup-related issue - my google-fu is failing me in locating the six Repuiblicans (or, five, RP’s company included) who voted against the bill. Even out to a pub, it takes a lot to get me up for darts, but if I ever found out who these stinkards were, pictures of their faces are getting made into dartboard backdrops. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=76) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=78)