# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 86
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1703 "2020-12-31T20:01:27Z")
> **[Pro-Trump Lawyer Bizarrely Suggests Jeffrey Epstein Is Still Alive](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lin-wood-antonin-scalia-john-roberts-jeffrey-epstein_n_5fee0bfbc5b65a92290dc2e4)** > > L. Lin Wood also falsely claimed that Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts was behind Justice Antonin Scalia's death. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1704 "2020-12-31T20:42:46Z")
Then I think we largely agree. We both think it was feasible for Republicans to flip the election early on but that the Republicans who needed to be on board (e.g. judges, state boards, governors, etc.) decided not to do so. Democracy was preserved by those Republicans. Where we disagree is _why_ those Republicans decided against the flip. I think most of them did so because it’s undemocratic, you think it was (partly) because they were afraid of a failed coup. I don’t think we’re going to change each other’s mind on that. While I feel much better about the upcoming circus because the Democrats hold the House I’m not expecting the Senate to vote to override the election. I think McConnell’s attempt to squelch it is proof that most senators don’t want to vote for Trump. It’ll be interesting (in a train-wreck way) to see how many senators vote for Trump. I’m hoping less than 10. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1705 "2020-12-31T21:35:20Z")
Ya know, this is a little embarrassing to admit, but if there’s ONE conspiracy theory I could buy in to,\* it would be that Jeffrey Epstein is still alive. \*or is it into? I don’t know. I was educated in the south and hated English. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1706 "2020-12-31T21:39:54Z")
Jake Tapper of CNN is reporting that he has been told that up to 140 Republican House members will vote not to certify the election. That’s fine, since the Democrats will outvote them, but if there are that many votes in the House, what will happen in the Senate? > ---
**Author:** ![akwally1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akwally1/32/3220_2.png) [@akwally1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akwally1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1707 "2020-12-31T21:46:11Z")
Short of the proud boys kidnapping a few hundred members of the House of Representatives, this idiotic ploy by Trump will fail miserably, and Biden will be President. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1708 "2020-12-31T21:50:22Z")
McConnell has already stated he’s against voting not to certify. Romney also will vote against it, and certainly Collins and Murkowski. McConnell will bring enough cover so others can vote on that side. So the Senate isn’t going to vote against it either. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1709 "2020-12-31T21:54:55Z")
House members have to worry about getting primaried by Trumpists in two years, right? It’s unfortunate but I can see how more representatives will vote for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1710 "2020-12-31T22:07:58Z")
Those crazy republicans are big on calling people pedophiles, aren’t they? I sarcastically wonder what’s up with that. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1711 "2020-12-31T22:09:57Z")
misread ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1712 "2020-12-31T22:22:03Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > At the end of the scene, Cyrus gets shot by a rival gang member and there is all out war. Gangs against gangs, not gangs against the NYPD. And The Warriors, the gang blamed for the killing of Cyrus althought they didn’t do it, finally make it back home to Brooklyn. I’ll say they represent a fair share of the American populace who, well hell I can’t think of a good example. I thought it was back home was Coney Island? But I haven’t seen the movie in quite a long time. I do agree it’s a very entertaining movie. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1713 "2020-12-31T22:37:26Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > I thought it was back home was Coney Island? Same difference - Coney island is technically in Brooklyn. The movie of course is based on a [real story](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Thousand) from history and a very real [Cyrus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Younger). ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1714 "2020-12-31T23:57:16Z")
Toomey and Sasse have also put themselves on record against refusing to certify electors. Wouldn’t surprise me if the old bulls like Grassley and Shelby vote against the objection. All told you’ll probably see up to a dozen Rs side with all the Ds to handily swat this down in the Senate. Which would still mean 40 Senate Republicans voting to overturn electors based on nothing. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2021, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1715 "2021-01-01T02:09:49Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Same difference - Coney island is technically in Brooklyn. Ah, didn’t know that. I just remember that beach scene at the end. Didn’t look like my stereotypical view of Brooklyn! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2021, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1716 "2021-01-01T02:20:51Z")
40 Traitors who want a dictatorship. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1717 "2021-01-01T03:43:53Z")
[You can’t make this stuff up](https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/31/politics/mcconnell-hawley-electoral-college-vote/index.html) – McConnell held a conference call of the Senate Republicans to press Josh Hawley on his rationale for objecting to the swing state electors. After Hawley did not respond to several direct questions from McConnell, they realized that he wasn’t even on the call. And McConnell told his members to vote their conscience, although it sounds like he was pretty clear that he thought it was moronic to object and he described this as the biggest vote of his (and their) careers. I’m actually starting to think there won’t be as many Senate Republican votes for objecting to electors as I previously thought. You’ll get the genuine MAGA Heads and the “pretending to be a MAGA Head so he can run for president (i.e. Ted Cruz)” crowd, but the “middle” (it’s a relative term) of the Republican Caucus – your Shelley Moore Capito, Rob Portman, Jerry Moran, etc. – may be more amendable to shutting down objections than I assumed ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2021, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1718 "2021-01-01T04:45:49Z")
for a minute I thought you were serious about Cyrus, that a bunch of gangs in NYC got together. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2021, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1719 "2021-01-01T05:08:40Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > for a minute I thought you were serious about Cyrus, that a bunch of gangs in NYC got together. 😁 No, Sol Yurkick based [the novel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Warriors_(Yurick_novel)) on [Xenophon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophon)’s [Anabasis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_(Xenophon)). Xenophon’s travails of course started when he and the other men in his mercenary army ended up backing the losing faction in a struggle for the Persian throne. With his losing candidate (Cyrus the Younger) dead, they were forced into a multi-year retreat through mostly hostile territory to return to Ionian Greece. It’s almost exactly like the film! ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2021, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1720 "2021-01-01T05:27:40Z")
Bring it on. This is just going to further divide the Republican Party. This article was from 11/9, when 70% of Repubs (let’s call them that like so many Repubs use Democrat party, instead of Democratic) thought there was fraud in the election. I suspect it has gone down, let’s say it is now 60/40. That is 60% of the Repub party that may vote against any Repub candidate in the future who didn’t support the Trump coup. In the 2022 mid-terms, some Repubs are going to get primaried. In Mississippi it won’t matter, but in states where it is close, it will. They will be running far-righters who challenged the election without providing a single piece of evidence. > **[Poll: 70 percent of Republicans don’t think the election was free and fair](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/republicans-free-fair-elections-435488)** > > The POLITICO/Morning Consult survey found trust in the election system plummeted among Republicans while rising among Democrats after the race was called on Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1721 "2021-01-01T13:14:46Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > The snswer to your question is “ **Yes** ”: That article is something, and it is suggestive, but it doesn’t address the same question. Instead, it brings up a new, more authoritarian step in a legal premise that the presiding officer of the joint session of Congress can _unilaterally_ determine which set of electors to place before Congress. That is not at all the same thing as has been done before, following the traditional process of putting forward the electors certified by the state or in accordance with the state election results. Even though Pence is declining to claim the unilateral authority to put forward whatever electors he wishes, he could still follow the existing process to allow objections to the states’ choices. This point may be moot. If Senator Hawley is going to back the calls from the House, then it’s a different situation. The calls in 2016 from the Democrats didn’t have any Senator support them, which is why Biden was able to shut them down procedurally. That obstacle is overcome for Pence. > [@Deeg](#): > > Then I think we largely agree. We both think it was feasible for Republicans to flip the election early on but that the Republicans who needed to be on board (e.g. judges, state boards, governors, etc.) decided not to do so. Democracy was preserved by those Republicans. > > Where we disagree is _why_ those Republicans decided against the flip. I think most of them did so because it’s undemocratic, you think it was (partly) because they were afraid of a failed coup. I don’t think we’re going to change each other’s mind on that. I agree with you that Republicans and Republican appointed judges have refused to tamper with the results, and I agree their motivation is likely due to supporting the democratic process. They are following the laws and judging cases by actual evidence. This is somewhat comforting in that not everyone in the Party has drunk the Kool-aid. Where I think we disagree is on the amount of harm that is being done by the Republican officials in pushing the crazy claims of fraud, pushing the outlandish attempts at legal intervention, backing the calls for overturning the State election results. The support they are giving those ideas is furthering the feelings of many Americans that the process is broken, that the will of the people was subverted, and Trump was robbed of the Second term. And it normalizes the approach of claiming fraud without evidence as a political tool to stir your supporters. Couple that with the growing frustration of the left with efforts to suppress voter turnout and disenfranchise expected Democrat voters, now we have forces from both sides with growing disillusion about the whole process. This is undermining the general population’s confidence in the democratic process as currently established. It is _possible_ this could drive serious reevaluation that leads to positive changes, if someone is bright enough to have ideas that would harness that change in a positive way. But I feel it is much easier to drive those feelings without any controls or direction on improvement, which will make Americans question the legitimacy of the government as a whole, not just for Biden, but for the foreseeable future. And it is possible those forces, if left unchanneled, will lead us into chaos, if not outright revolution. I think that is a much more likely scenario because it is much easier. It is a lot harder to come up with ideas for change both sides can support. It is much easier to lose control of the beast that is being unleashed. It is easier for me to emotionally believe things will improve because that’s what I want and because I am influenced by the idea that chaos is not desired by the majority of Americans on both sides. Plus the expectation that things will be okay, because they’ve always been okay. But I recognize that is fallacious thinking. Looking with reasoning instead of emotion ironically leaves me _more_ scared. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1722 "2021-01-01T18:24:32Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Repubs (let’s call them that like so many Repubs use Democrat party I’ve been calling them the Repug party for a while now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=85) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=87)