# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 90
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1783 "2021-01-02T22:32:08Z")
The fact that your argument has needed to shift to ‘it’s a managed coup attempt which is being expertly managed to fail’ should indicate to you the weakness of your position, right? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1784 "2021-01-02T23:36:56Z")
How many Senators end up voting to object to Biden electors will depend on the political calculations of the 18 Republican Senators whose seats will be on the ballot in 2022 (not including two who have already announced their retirement). A couple of them are probably going to retire but just haven’t announced it (e.g. Grassley), but for the rest this is probably the single most consequential vote of their careers. These will be the first Senators to face a Republican primary after the vote, when the memory will still be fresh and Trump will undoubtedly have spent two years keeping that memory alive. If they vote against Trump, they are all but guaranteed a furious, well-funded primary challenge. How many of them will decide that they’re willing to run that risk? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1785 "2021-01-02T23:50:31Z")
I’m not sure what you mean. I’ve said that Lin Wood does not represent the Republican party. He’s called for Pence to be arrested for cripes sake. Only\* 11 senators (so far) are on board with challenging the election. That seems proof that most of the GOP does not believe like Wood. \* - 11 is 11 too many. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1786 "2021-01-02T23:53:38Z")
I largely agree with this. I don’t think the Republicans actually want to overturn the election. They just want the support of the Trumpists in upcoming elections and they think this will help. Which is, of course, a sad reflection on the state of their voters. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1787 "2021-01-03T00:00:42Z")
Deeg. It should be _zero_ lawsuits It should be _zero_ House members It should be _zero_ Senators The very fact this thread is continuing this long after I started it should be _damning_ to the Republican party. They _deserve_ no defense for this shit, this obvious attempt to create yet another ‘lost cause’ narrative which splinters the country yet gives them an unassailable block of voters. If it weren’t for a quirk in the rules _and_ circumstance… that the House has to vote for this shit too… this coup would be inevitable. And it still yet may succeed! You are defending the indefensible. There has to be a breaking point in your defense of these assholes and I guess I’m wondering… what is it? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1788 "2021-01-03T00:31:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > “Elections that we lost were fraudulent. Elections that we won were fair.” > > They have no problem thinking this way. > > Essentially, the Trumplican Party does not want to hold elections anymore. They are going all-in on dictatorship. Yes, and the transparently-specious excuses the Sedition Faction are given for their January 6 plans reinforce the point that they don’t care who knows that they support dictatorship. Josh Hawley’s pile of lies illustrates the point. As the NPR report on it noted: > [@](#): > > Hawley alleged — without providing evidence — that there was an “unprecedented effort of mega corporations, including Facebook and Twitter, to interfere in this election” in support of Biden. > > In his statement, Hawley called on Congress to investigate allegations of voter fraud and election irregularities. No credible evidence of such fraud has been provided by President Trump or his legal team. This has held true for all statements by the Sedition Faction: they state that there are _Allegations of Fraud that concern them so deeply that they Must Act_ (by attempting to stop or delay the pro-forma January 6 acceptance of the Electoral College results). Not a single one of them has provided one particle of evidence. In fact, they all know that there is no evidence. Here’s what I think needs to be highlighted: Senators and Representatives may allege a problem while providing NO evidence that the problem exists—they argue that their FEELINGS that something is wrong shows they are acting in good faith. A mechanism is needed to short-circuit this Congressional sophistry—annoying at the best of times, but actively dangerous now. _If you allege fraud, you must provide evidence of said fraud. If you don’t, you must face consequences for your bad faith._ > **[GOP Sen. Hawley Will Object To Electoral College Certification](https://www.npr.org/sections/biden-transition-updates/2020/12/30/951430323/gop-sen-hawley-will-object-to-electoral-college-certification)** > > The move ensures there will be a debate and vote in both the House and the Senate and forces Republicans to go on the record as to whether they believe President Trump's allegations of election fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1789 "2021-01-03T00:45:57Z")
Now we’ve shifted from Lin Wood to the GOP in general. I’ve said that the GOP shouldn’t be challenging the vote. What I’ve pushed back on is that I don’t believe the Republican leadership is behind this. I also don’t believe the intent is to overturn the vote. We can differ over whether they have tried hard enough to shut this down. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1790 "2021-01-03T01:17:55Z")
They don’t want to shoot any bank tellers; they just want to take the money and run. The agenda can change as circumstances change, as different people become involved, and as these different people see opportunities for themselves. Question: Why is Ted Cruz, once the fiercest challenger to Trump, now leading the current effort in the senate? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1791 "2021-01-03T01:26:51Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Question: Why is Ted Cruz, once the fiercest challenger to Trump, now leading the current effort in the senate? Because he’s jockeying for position in the hearts and minds of MAGATs for 2024, and “I fought for Trump!” is a key selling point for them. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1792 "2021-01-03T01:27:32Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Question: Why is Ted Cruz, once the fiercest challenger to Trump, now leading the current effort in the senate? He’s signalling to the wackos that _he_ should be their man in 2024. **He** wants to be the _“someone smarter than Trump”_ we all fear. Considering he has been repeatedly politically humiliated by Trump, of all people, he may be once again thinking himself more clever than he is… ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1793 "2021-01-03T02:03:02Z")
It can’t be said any better than this. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1794 "2021-01-03T02:15:13Z")
Ted Cruz is quite possibly the most ambitious man in American politics, and he has never had a problem realigning himself with whatever faction he believes is best suited to propel him to the White House. Early on he worked his way up through the Republican establishment, clerking for Rehnquist and working in the GWB administration. With the rise of the Tea Party, he saw an grabbed an opportunity to reinvent himself as a fire-breathing conservative and bested our party establishment Lt. Governor in the primary for Senate. He thought that being a hard-right Tea Party champion was his ticket to the Oval Office, but then Trump happened. And so now he’s reinventing himself again as the MAGA Head champion to try to ride this movement to the top. If somehow Hare Krishnas became a driving force in the Republican Party, you’d see Cruz shaving his head and bothering strangers in airports. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1795 "2021-01-03T02:21:52Z")
I’m stealing that line about Cruz. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1796 "2021-01-03T02:22:24Z")
i already did but i credited **flurb** 😆 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1797 "2021-01-03T02:24:12Z")
I fear we are heading to an era where whenever a party holds both houses of Congress, it cannot lose the presidential election. Even if the majority party loses miserably, it will simply refuse to accept electors unfavorable to it. That’s why this must be nipped in the bud. But I think the genie can’t be rebottled. Even if this coup fails, Republicans will overturn future elections if it happens to hold both chambers. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1798 "2021-01-03T02:42:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > i already did but i credited **flurb** I did and put it on my FB page, just said I was retweeting. Now flurb, if you want credit I will name names. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1799 "2021-01-03T02:46:06Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Even if this coup fails, Republicans will overturn future elections if it happens to hold both chambers. Tumbrels, guillotines. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1800 "2021-01-03T03:02:27Z")
[Pence signals support for GOP lawmakers trying to overturn EC votes](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/02/us/politics/gop-senators-josh-hawley-election.html?) Why do I think there is more afoot than meets the eye? I’m not saying they have a shot at success but Pence getting onboard makes me think he plans to pull some sort if stunt on Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1801 "2021-01-03T03:13:29Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > Now flurb, if you want credit I will name names. I’ll be OK. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1802 "2021-01-03T03:19:32Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Why do I think there is more afoot than meets the eye? I’m not saying they have a shot at success but Pence getting onboard makes me think he plans to pull some sort if stunt on Wednesday. I actually read that Pence statement as him distancing himself from playing any active role in rejecting Biden electors, as he’s being called on to do by Gohmert and others. When he says he, “welcomes the efforts of members of the House and Senate to use _the authority they have_ under the law,” he’s putting the responsibility for the failure to overturn Biden electors right back on members of Congress. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=89) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=91)