# The American Coup: 11.9.2020 - **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182 "2020-11-09T23:29:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 95
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1883 "2021-01-03T22:38:59Z")
When I heard about the phone call I tried to think of how Republicans might respond. It could be something like… Trump knows that he won Georgia. He wasn’t asking for the Attorney General to make up the votes. He was asking to find the fraud. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1884 "2021-01-03T22:44:52Z")
Hold the phones guys, this is the big one, the sword that will finally cut through Trump’s bullshit and bring Republicans to their senses – **PAUL RYAN** has put out a statement excoriating the attempt to overturn Biden’s election. Paul Ryan? Anyone? You remember him, right? I think he was Speaker for a couple years, ran for Vice President with McCain or somebody. Paul Ryan? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1885 "2021-01-03T23:01:07Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > **PAUL RYAN** has put out a statement excoriating the attempt to overturn Biden’s election. Is this recent? Do you have a recent link? I’m finding a whole lot of links to articles about this from late November, but I don’t immediately see anything really current. Example: > **[Paul Ryan urges Trump to accept defeat — but gets ridiculed for taking so...](https://www.alternet.org/2020/11/paul-ryan)** > > Former House Speaker Paul Ryan has been keeping a low profile since exiting the U.S. House of Representatives in early January 2019, but this week, the Wisconsin Republican spoke out about the results of the 2020 presidential election — and he made... ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1886 "2021-01-03T23:03:13Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Is this recent? Do you have a recent link? Yes, he said this today. From WaPo’s breaking election news thread today: > [@](#): > > Former House speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) excoriated congressional efforts to challenge Biden’s win, warning that perpetuating the notion of an illegitimate result strikes “at the foundation of our republic.” > > In a statement Sunday, Ryan said it was difficult to _“_ to conceive of a more anti-democratic and anti-conservative act than a federal intervention to overturn the results of state-certified elections and disenfranchise millions of Americans. The fact that this effort will fail does not mean it will not do significant damage to American democracy.” > > Ryan, who has largely steered clear of the political fray since retiring at the end of his term in January 2019, said the Trump campaign has had many opportunities in the courts to challenge the election results and those cases have failed to produce evidence of voter fraud. > > Ryan also highlighted that the Justice Department found nothing to warrant overturning the election results. > > “If states wish to reform their processes for future elections, that is their prerogative. But Joe Biden’s victory is entirely legitimate,” Ryan said. > **[Pelosi reelected House speaker; new Congress convenes amid surging pandemic](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/02/new-congress-live-updates/)** > > Democrats in the House are poised to have the narrowest majority of either party in 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1887 "2021-01-03T23:05:37Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Yes, he said this today. From WaPo’s breaking election news thread today: Aha! thank you for the link. I hadn’t seen that yet. Doncha know, I always go to SDMB first for my daily news, WaPo second. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1888 "2021-01-03T23:25:08Z")
> "From a purely partisan perspective, Republican presidential candidates have won the national popular vote only once in the last 32 years. They have therefore depended on the electoral college for nearly all presidential victories in the last generation. > > If we perpetuate the notion that Congress may disregard certified electoral votes - based solely on its own assessment that one or more states mishandled the presidential election - we will be delegitimizing the very system that led Donald Trump to victory in 2016 and that could provide the only path to victory in 2024." Rep. Thomas Massie along with seven republican colleagues in the House have signed onto a letter saying they will not object the results and that passage is in the letter. Now that I think about it, he’s right. It’s in the republican party’s best interest to keep the electoral college as the arbiter of the presidential winner. Democrats would love to abolish it and make elections decided by the popular vote. They’ve won 7 out of the last 8 elections in the popular vote count. What better way for democrats to start that process by pointing the fact that it was the republicans who got the ball moving by trying to make it redundant in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1889 "2021-01-03T23:34:25Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Speaking of the Lieutenant Governor of Pennsylvania, this guy is a rock star. His name is John Fetterman, he’s a former college football player (and looks it, he’s a beast) and he has a degree in Public Policy from Harvard. > … Whoa! [![](https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2F41a49a58-4870-41cf-960c-bcfd727b8ecd.jpg?fit=scale-down&source=next&width=700) ](https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net%2Fproduction%2F41a49a58-4870-41cf-960c-bcfd727b8ecd.jpg?fit=scale-down&source=next&width=700) Future presidential candidate maybe? ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1890 "2021-01-03T23:37:11Z")
Excellent! Pennsylvania elected a Klingon! ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1891 "2021-01-03T23:38:21Z")
But he could be OUR Klingon! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1892 "2021-01-03T23:42:08Z")
He looks like he could pound any uppity Republican into the ground without breaking a sweat, all the while quoting from his Hahvahd edumacation. Brains and brawn-- perfect combo for today’s combative political \ _arena_. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1893 "2021-01-03T23:44:11Z")
Wasn’t he in the 40 year old virgin? ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1894 "2021-01-03T23:50:05Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > If the shenanigans in Congress mean that the vote-count continues past January 20, with each state slate being challenged, perhaps by different pairs of Representatives and Senators, then January 20 rolls around and there’s not been a final decision. > > However, that would be a case where “neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified”. Trump and Pence’s terms come to an end: Twentieth Amendment, s. 1. Speaker Pelosi becomes acting President under the 20th Amendment, s. 3, while the Senate pro tem leader replaces former Vice-President Pence in presiding over the vote count. This addresses one of my concerns. I recall reading “somewhere” that there was a time limit to the overall proceedings (in addition to the two-hour debate limit), and I was somewhat worried that going beyond that limit would create an impasse which would be resolved in the House in the same manner as a tie. But I couldn’t find more detail, because such a limit doesn’t exist. So thank you(!) for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1895 "2021-01-03T23:56:24Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > But I couldn’t find more detail, because such a limit doesn’t exist. While there’s no hard time limit, the Electoral Count Act says that if the joint session has not completed the count within five calendar days, they are not allowed any further recesses until they’re done. So they have to keep going 24/7 until they finish. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1896 "2021-01-04T00:00:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I fear we are heading to an era where whenever a party holds both houses of Congress, it cannot lose the presidential election. Even if the majority party loses miserably, it will simply refuse to accept electors unfavorable to it. That’s why this must be nipped in the bud. But I think the genie can’t be rebottled. Even if this coup fails, Republicans will overturn future elections if it happens to hold both chambers. ^ This. And: > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > How hard are the Trumplicans going to fight to retain the Georgia senate seats? > Very freakin’ hard. > > If there is any kind of victory by the Democrats, it will be fought. Hard. > > It’s obvious why. The Trumplicans have staked out their ground; The House and Senate are to decide elections now. If the voters choose another party, Trumplicans argue that they alone have the power to override this bad decision and install the party of their choice. > > This is where they stand now; All they need is “suspicion” that there were voting irregularities, and they can override the vote and install their candidate. They don’t need any proof or even any evidence whatsoever. > > Now - fast forward to "what if Democrats hold the House and Senate? Well, then by Trumplican logic, the Democrat House and Senate will be able to simply put whoever they choose into the whitehouse in perpetuity (as they themselves want to do.) > > Projection. > > They will not allow this to happen. > > They have gone all-in on the destruction of democracy. You can’t do this half way. It’s all or nothing for the Trumplicans at this point. They have chosen. ^This, too. Some of those supporting the ‘count only votes for Republicans’ Jan 6 effort are smart enough to know that Republican domination of the US government cannot happen, any longer, if free and fair elections are permitted to happen. As David Frum famously said: > [@](#): > > If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy. I’m not sure that “conservatives” is the relevant term, though. These people–Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz, Marsha Blackburn, et al–have surely earned the label “neo-fascists” by now. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1897 "2021-01-04T00:03:52Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > > [@OttoDaFe](#): > > > > But I couldn’t find more detail, because such a limit doesn’t exist. > > While there’s no hard time limit, the Electoral Count Act says that if the joint session has not completed the count within five calendar days, they are not allowed any further recesses until they’re done. So they have to keep going 24/7 until they finish. Perhaps they are assuming that with all the Vice Presidential powers we are newly learning about at his command, Pence can get rid of that provision. Remember, the Sedition Faction is requesting a “10-day” investigation of all the “allegations.” So it seems safe to say that they believe they can keep this all going up to January 20 and beyond. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1898 "2021-01-04T00:11:17Z")
Paul Ryan is not a Trumplican, so he can be ignored by the adoring masses. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1899 "2021-01-04T00:20:21Z")
All ten living Defense Secretaries have written [a very powerful letter](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-election-defense-secretaries-public-letter/index.html) saying that the election is over, and that the DOD had better not interfere. The letter is signed by Dick Cheney, James Mattis, Mark Esper, Leon Panetta, Donald Rumsfeld, William Cohen, Chuck Hagel, Robert Gates, William Perry and Ashton Carter. Some interesting quotes: > “Our elections have occurred. Recounts and audits have been conducted. Appropriate challenges have been addressed by the courts. Governors have certified the results. And the electoral college has voted. The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the Constitution and statute, has arrived,” > (Any effort by the military to settle an election dispute) “would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory.” > “Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, **including potentially facing criminal penalties** , for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic.” (bolding mine) This is quite the statement from EVERY SINGLE FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1900 "2021-01-04T00:27:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This is quite the statement from EVERY SINGLE FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY EVERY SINGLE living FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY, of course. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1901 "2021-01-04T00:27:54Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > This addresses one of my concerns. I recall reading “somewhere” that there was a time limit to the overall proceedings (in addition to the two-hour debate limit), and I was somewhat worried that going beyond that limit would create an impasse which would be resolved in the House in the same manner as a tie. But I couldn’t find more detail, because such a limit doesn’t exist. So thank you(!) for the clarification. Even so, wouldn’t the limit be a little over 50 hours, assuming they challenge every Biden state and DC and accounting for the few minutes for the states Trump won? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182/1902 "2021-01-04T00:34:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > EVERY SINGLE living FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY, of course. Well, sure - I understand Trump is lobbying Satan hard to get the undead former Secretary’s of Defense to issue a strongly worded rebuttal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=94) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-coup-11-9-2020/925182.md?page=96)