# The American Legion: Irony Much? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610 "2005-08-25T19:18:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/1 "2005-08-25T19:18:11Z")
> [@](#): > > [**American Legion Declares War on Protestors – Media Next?**](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001020671) > The American Legion, which has 2.7 million members, has declared war on antiwar protestors, and the media could be next. Speaking at its national convention in Honolulu, the group’s national commander called for an end to all “public protests” and “media events” against the war. > > “The American Legion will stand against anyone and any group that would demoralize our troops, or worse, endanger their lives by encouraging terrorists to continue their cowardly attacks against freedom-loving peoples,” Thomas Cadmus, national commander, told delegates at the group’s national convention in Honolulu. > > …In his speech, Cadmus declared: “It would be tragic if the freedoms our veterans fought so valiantly to protect would be used against their successors today as they battle terrorists bent on our destruction.” I can’t think of anything else to say that would further highlight the ironic stupidity of this statement. But then, this is a group that made [Mussolini an honorary member,](http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/EE/fea6.html) so maybe Mr. Cadmus just wants to bring the AL back to its roots. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/2 "2005-08-25T19:23:13Z")
You must not have got the memo: we must surrender our freedoms in order to protect them. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/3 "2005-08-25T19:37:36Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I can’t think of anything else to say that would further highlight the ironic stupidity of this statement. > > But then, this is a group that made [Mussolini an honorary member,](http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/EE/fea6.html) so maybe Mr. Cadmus just wants to bring the AL back to its roots. That was uncalled for. There are many groups that can be made to look bad by modern standards if you go back far enough. Hitler had many admirers in America before 1939. Many leftists willfully ignored Stalin’s crimes against humanity. If you read the entire article, Cadmus is not saying that protests should be banned, just that some forms of protest are harmful to the country and encourage our enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/4 "2005-08-25T19:44:31Z")
A lot of the country has taken some bad turns lately, but the fact that I keep hearing that folks actually think that people should not be allowed to protest wars is, I think, the one that chills me the most. I truly never would have thought it was possible in this country. Sure, a crackpot here and there, maybe about the same amount of people who thought E.T. probed their assholes with his glowing finger in the cornfield. But ever since Bush started pushing for war with Iraq, it comes up with startling regularity. I’m hard pressed to think of anything less American. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/5 "2005-08-25T19:46:58Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > If you read the entire article, Cadmus is not saying that protests should be banned, just that some forms of protest are harmful to the country and encourage our enemies. The only form of protest he appears to exempt is “correspondence to their elected officials”. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/6 "2005-08-25T19:47:49Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > If you read the entire article, Cadmus is not saying that protests should be banned, just that some forms of protest are harmful to the country and encourage our enemies. Yes, they want to limit people’s protests to “correspondence to their elected officials”. In others words, to almost pure ineffectiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/7 "2005-08-25T19:53:46Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Yes, they want to limit people’s protests to “correspondence to their elected officials”. In others words, to almost pure ineffectiveness. He’s not asking for it to be made illegal as far as I can tell. He’s calling for people to voluntarily refrain from public protests. I think he’s extremely misguided, but he’s not actually at the level authoritarian repression yet. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/8 "2005-08-25T19:58:25Z")
After reading the article, it seems like they’re saying “We respect that you’re protesting. Now, SHUT UP! You’re helping the terrorists when you protest!” ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/9 "2005-08-25T19:59:49Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > He’s not asking for it to be made illegal as far as I can tell. He’s calling for people to voluntarily refrain from public protests. > > I think he’s extremely misguided, but he’s not actually at the level authoritarian repression yet. I didn’t say or imply he did. It’s still a dangerous and un-American notion. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/10 "2005-08-25T20:02:00Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > That was uncalled for. This is the BBQ Pit; expecting “fair” here is like expecting snow in Death Valley. 🙂 (And hey, here’s another: the American Legion apparently tried to [undermine the US government](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot) back in 1933…) > [@mks57](#): > > If you read the entire article, Cadmus is not saying that protests should be banned, just that some forms of protest are harmful to the country and encourage our enemies. Irony much? ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/11 "2005-08-25T20:03:00Z")
I’ll be in Washington DC for an antiwar march in about a month. The American Legion is cordially invited to eat shit. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/12 "2005-08-25T20:06:33Z")
[Preamble to the Constitution of The American Legion For God and Country](http://www.legion.org/?section=our_legion&subsection=ol_who_we_are&content=ol_who_we_are) > [@](#): > > We associate ourselves together for the following purposes: > > To uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America; to maintain law and order; to foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism; to preserve the memories and incidents of our associations in the Great Wars; to inculcate a sense of individual obligation to the community, state and nation; to combat the autocracy of both the classes and the masses; to make right the master of might; to promote peace and goodwill on earth; to safeguard and transmit to posterity the principles of justice, freedom and democracy; to consecrate and sanctify our comradeship by our devotion to mutual helpfulness. [Legionnaires Condemn War Protests, Pledge](http://www.legion.org/?section=pub_relations&subsection=pr_listreleases&content=pr_press_release&id=303) > [@](#): > > August 23, 2005 - Delegates to the nation’s largest wartime veterans organization meeting here in national convention today vowed to use whatever means necessary to ensure the united support of the American people for our troops and the global war on terrorism. [Resolution No. 169 - Support For The War On Terrorism](http://www.legion.org/?section=pub_relations&subsection=pr_listreleases&content=pr_press_release&id=308) > [@](#): > > Whereas…whereas…whereas… > Resolved, That The American Legion urges all Americans and freedom-loving peoples everywhere to stand united in their support of the global war on terrorism, and united in their support of the troops who are engaged in protecting our values and way of life; and, be it finally > > Resolved, That the National Commander be and is hereby authorized to use whatever means at his disposal to disseminate accurate information about this war on terrorism, and to engage whatever means necessary to ensure the united support of the American people. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/13 "2005-08-25T20:06:39Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I can’t think of anything else to say that would further highlight the ironic stupidity of this statement. Never mind, the American Legion already did: [http://web.archive.org/web/19991217104012/http://www.legion.org/yugoltr.htm](http://web.archive.org/web/19991217104012/http://www.legion.org/yugoltr.htm) > [@](#): > > Mr. President, the United States Armed Forces should never be committed to wartime operations unless the following conditions are fulfilled: > That there be a clear statement by the President of why it is in our vital national interests to be engaged in hostilities; > > Guidelines be established for the mission, including a clear exit strategy; > > That there be support of the mission by the U.S. Congress and the American people; and > > That it be made clear that U.S. Forces will be commanded only by U.S. officers whom we acknowledge are superior military leaders. > It is the opinion of The American Legion, which I am sure is shared by the majority of Americans, that three of the above listed conditions have not been met in the current joint operation with NATO ("Operation Allied Force’’). > > In no case should America commit its Armed Forces in the absence of clearly defined objectives agreed upon by the U.S. Congress in accordance with Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution of the United States. > > Sincerely, > Harold L. "Butch’’ Miller, > National Commander > > American Legion > Letter to President Clinton > May 5, 1999 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/14 "2005-08-25T21:03:33Z")
Where’s the irony? Are they actually calling for laws to end protest or are they planning on protesting anti-war demonstrations and rail against the media? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/15 "2005-08-25T21:13:58Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > Where’s the irony? Are they actually calling for laws to end protest or are they planning on protesting anti-war demonstrations and rail against the media? They appear to be claiming we must give up our freedom in order to preserve it; sort of like “I destroyed the village in order to save it.” . ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/16 "2005-08-25T21:27:24Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > They appear to be claiming we must give up our freedom… The line “whatever means necessary…” sounds more like taking our freedom with chains and truncheons, than it does convincing us to give it up. As this line from the legion’s own article demonstrates, the group has not come to terms with the debt they owe Vietnam war protestors for getting them, and the nation, out of that quagmire before Reagan’s second term: > [@](#): > > public protests against the war here at home while our young men and women are in harm’s way on the other side of the globe **only** provide aid and comfort to our enemies. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/17 "2005-08-25T22:51:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Never mind, the American Legion already did: But you have to understand … it’s only wrong when a Democrat does it. If a Republican protests a war and uses terms like “wagging the dog” or “lack of a clear exit strategy” he’s a hero and a patriot. It’s only when the traitorous Democrats protest wars that the morale of the troops is undermined. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/18 "2005-08-25T22:58:27Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > As this line from the legion’s own article demonstrates, the group has not come to terms with the debt they owe Vietnam war protestors for getting them, and the nation, out of that quagmire before Reagan’s second term: Debt?! They don’t owe them a damn thing. Richard Nixon ended the war. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/19 "2005-08-25T23:06:42Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Richard Nixon ended the war. Nope, the Viet cong ended the war by taking Saigon in April 1975. Nixon resigned in disgrace on August 9, 1974. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610/20 "2005-08-25T23:06:47Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > They don’t owe them a damn thing. Richard Nixon ended the war. I’m sure he would have been real eager to if there hadn’t been any public protests against the war. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-legion-irony-much/318610.md?page=2)