# The American notion/joke that a mother-in-law is a mortal enemy **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 10, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296 "2016-08-10T00:49:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/21 "2016-08-10T12:48:36Z")
> [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > Also with my mother and father (although not with my mom and dad). 😕 ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/22 "2016-08-10T12:57:56Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Thanks I forgot about that. I was going to say that it seems to be pretty common in British sitcoms so when the OP calls it an American phenomenon it rings false. Yeah, not American. I’d be pretty surprised if it wasn’t a trope found in many cultures, as knotting families together where things might be done differently combined with the power imbalance of parent and adult child is a pretty common cause for agro. I think the jokes just come from men because traditionally there haven’t been nearly as many women comics. And women probably don’t find it as funny, as they have to live with the hell of their MILs telling them how to keep house, raise their children etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/23 "2016-08-10T13:01:49Z")
I thought the tradition was for conflict between a wife and her mother-in-law (the father of her husband). In patriarchal cultures where the daughter left her father’s house and moved into her husband’s house, the mother-in-law was still considered the queen bee of the female part of the household, and conflict would happen. Not so much with the husband or the father-in-law, at least not day-to-day, because the men were out working in the fields or hunting or herding, and because it was taken for granted that the man was in charge. In this week’s gospel, Jesus is talking about how He brings division, and one of the conflicts He says He will create is between a daughter-in-law and her mother-in-law. Sons-in-law are not even mentioned, which I find interesting. FWIW, my late mother-in-law was one of the sweetest ladies I ever met, and I loved her very much. And my grandmother, my mother’s mother, lived with us when I was growing up, until the day before she died. And it wasn’t until I was grown up and married that it occurred to me that my father lived with his mother-in-law for many years. And never even a hint of conflict. When I was a kid I just assumed that nobody fought because grandma was grandma, and everybody loves grandma (they did). Later I realized that there was a conscious effort on both sides to be respectful and accommodating. That’s why it worked. I miss my grandma, and she has been dead for 46 years. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/24 "2016-08-10T13:24:06Z")
Mother-in-law jokes became a staple of early TV, maybe going back into radio or earlier. It’s a kind of universal humor that’s suitable for family audiences. In-laws can be a problem for anyone, but it’s not a case where everyone’s mother-in-law is an overbearing meddler, it’s just the proliferation of jokes that make it seem that way. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/25 "2016-08-10T13:47:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Someone once noted that the joke/meme about one’s mother-in-law being an enemy or hostile figure seems to be a mostly American phenomenon, because in some other cultures, women typically look \*favorably \*on their sons-in-laws. No, it’s at least as old as Ancient Rome: _Give up all hope of peace as long as your mother-in-law is still alive_ - Juvenal, _Satires_ ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/26 "2016-08-10T14:01:58Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’ve always assumed the ‘‘MIL is a mortal enemy’’ trope referred to women and their MILs, not men. My grandmother and my mother. Thirty years into my parents marriage my grandmother was still saying “what ever happened to that Maureen you went to prom with? She was such a nice girl.” There was no way to make my grandmother happy - especially for my mother. And then, when my mother stopped trying to make her happy, it was almost WWIII. I regularly go dance on the bitch’s grave (I don’t, but I’ve thought about it - she’s buried a mile or two up the road). My mother-ex-law and me. When my ex started having his affair - and before I knew about it, he went on a vacation with his parents. They took his girlfriend. It wasn’t the only MIL offense over our five years together, but it was the worst. My current MIL is not my best friend (she would like that sort of relationship - but we are too different), but she is a generous woman. There have been a few areas on contention - but not many - and she quickly came around to “I might not be exactly what she wanted in a daughter in law, but I was a great partner for her son.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/27 "2016-08-10T14:10:06Z")
My own mother-in-law had her personal problems but she was very nice to me and didn’t interfere in our lives. My mother doesn’t interfere much in our lives either, but she’s an awful person in general. My wife’s too nice to tell her off but my brother’s wife doesn’t hesitate and we love to see it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/28 "2016-08-10T14:22:41Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’ve always assumed the ‘‘MIL is a mortal enemy’’ trope referred to women and their MILs, not men. Men’s adversarial relationships with their mothers-in-law seems to be a common theme in pop culture, though most of the examples that readily spring to mind are from the 50’s and 60’s. Popular music: [“Mother-In-Law”](https://play.google.com/music/preview/Tu62ojmj2d6i2bjde2feks76ruq?lyrics=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=lyrics&pcampaignid=kp-songlyrics) by Ernie K-Doe [“Situation Vacant”](https://www.kindakinks.net/discography/showsong.php?song=357) by The Kinks TV: [Endora](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bewitched_characters#Endora) on _Bewitched_ [Fred’s mother-in-law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Slaghoople) on _The Flintstones_ Comics: [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Slaghoople) describes the title character’s mother-in-law as “A stereotypical mother in law, she often visits to pepper Brutus with insults and emotional anguish.” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/29 "2016-08-10T14:25:25Z")
**Thudlow Boink** , the Wikipedia link is about The Flintstones. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/30 "2016-08-10T14:47:59Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **Thudlow Boink** , the Wikipedia link is about The Flintstones. D’oh! :smack: Mean to post [this link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Born_Loser#Secondary_characters), to the Wikipedia article on the comic strip _The Born Loser_. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/31 "2016-08-10T15:09:26Z")
It’s a standard common trope in British humour (and therefore elsewhere in the British-influenced Anglosphere): the comedian Les Dawson used MIL jokes as part of his staple act, including the epithet “Mussolini in knickers” - and try some of these: [http://youtu.be/tuFy3iCZ3x8?t=30](http://youtu.be/tuFy3iCZ3x8?t=30) And there’s an old French music-hall song (“En plus grand”) of Maurice Chevalier, all about a pretty young girl asking him to explain various things, finishing up with a mother-in-law. The response roughly translates as: “You’ve heard of vipers, camels, dromedaries, smallpox, scabies, Spanish flu, all the most frightening things on earth - well, a mother-in-law’s all that, only more so” ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/32 "2016-08-10T15:17:43Z")
Husband is estranged from his father, and his mother passed away last year. It took a few years for she and I to reach an accommodation - we are very different people - but we both came from a place of love for her son, and that was what was important. Husband gets along great with my folks - he loves them deeply, and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/33 "2016-08-10T16:41:26Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Men’s adversarial relationships with their mothers-in-law seems to be a common theme in pop culture, though most of the examples that readily spring to mind are from the 50’s and 60’s. I was going to say this. While conflicts still happen, I didn’t realize MILs were still a thing in popular culture. Given that writing back then was male dominated, most of the conflicts were with the guy’s MIL, but I do remember some with the suffocating mother protecting sonny from that other woman (his wife.) Mine was fine. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/34 "2016-08-10T16:49:49Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, it’s at least as old as Ancient Rome: > _Give up all hope of peace as long as your mother-in-law is still alive_ - Juvenal, _Satires_ I kinda like the little detail there. Not only will you get no peace, you can’t even hope for it ☹ ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/35 "2016-08-10T17:18:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I thought the tradition was for conflict between a wife and her mother-in-law (the father of her husband). I’m assuming the parenthetical was supposed to be “mother of her husband”. This has been my experience, and what I’ve observed from friends. Sources of conflict I’ve noticed: It’s hard for the MIL to deal with the fact that she’s not the most important woman in her son’s life any more. The wife feels like the MIL is judging her harshly on traditional wife duties, like cooking, keeping house, and child-rearing. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/36 "2016-08-10T18:04:07Z")
Your spouse and your parent will always have conflicts. They both want to run your life, and they resent the interference. ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/37 "2016-08-10T18:58:27Z")
As far as origin goes I think it comes from popular fiction here based mainly on the [Jewish mother trope](http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Jewish_Mother). [Another more in-depth cite as to the origin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotypes_of_Jews#Jewish_mother). A great deal of the early entertainment industry in this country was made up of those of European Jewish decent. I think that is probably why our popular culture accepted this meme and generalized it to any and all mothers rather than it staying a strictly ethnic stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/38 "2016-08-10T19:25:19Z")
I aspire to be a MIL from hell … how bad? I’m not even a woman, that’s how bad … ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/39 "2016-08-10T19:29:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I thought the tradition was for conflict between a wife and her mother-in-law (the father of her husband). I know the trope mostly as husband v wife’s mother. Pretty sure it’s been engrained to me from watching the Flintstones as a kid. (ETA: [Ah, Youtube link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUHwM87HL94).) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296/40 "2016-08-10T19:50:42Z")
> [@](#): > > The American notion/joke that a mother-in-law is a mortal enemy American? I’m pretty sure this crosses cultural lines. Though it’s not normally a ‘joke’ in some parts of the world…mother in laws can be real monsters in some cultures. I understand in many Asian countries and cultures they are. I know this is a real thing in Mexico. No idea about Europe…maybe it’s not a thing there, which is why the OP thinks it’s an American quirk. BTW, my own mother in law is pretty good and we get along well enough. My wife doesn’t get on that great with my own mother, though they aren’t enemies or at each others throats or anything…it’s more a cultural difference I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-notion-joke-that-a-mother-in-law-is-a-mortal-enemy/762296.md?page=3)