# The American Public is Fucking Gruesome **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550 "2011-05-03T05:58:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/181 "2011-05-04T15:20:42Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > We also played army in the school playground although, amazingly in both scenarios have we managed to realise that we were not actually killing real people. OBL was real, in case you hadn’t realised. > > So possibly there’s a difference. My comment was in regards to this proposed “culture of fascination with violence” that America is being accused of being the sole proprietor of. It isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/182 "2011-05-04T15:24:01Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > yes you can. What gives you that idea? True, I was hasty. Let’s just say it gets messy with the PM’s involvement in the CoE. There’s a reason why Blair waited until he left office to “convert”. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/183 "2011-05-04T15:24:02Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Liked the BeeGees over the Beatles. OKay, NOW, I’m joining the celebrations. That demonic bastard. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/184 "2011-05-04T15:25:43Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > You do realize that you still sound like an ignorant, babbling, inbred idiot who’s inordinately proud of himself, even if you oh-so-cleverly throw in a disingenuous “sir”… right? > Are you really quite so stupid that you think there’s a Justice-o-meter sitting somewhere (probably in Europe)? Do you truly lack the basic cognitive framework to understand that for all of human history, people have argued for what they viewed as right and just and were, perforce, discussing their own normative value judgements, no different in objective validity if they are from the School of Athens or over beers after work? Is your mind really so substandard that you think it’s somehow a cutting revelation that when someone argues for something being right and just that they’re discussing value judgments and not that they’ve performed mass spectroscopy and identified how many atoms of justicium and rightium are contained in the claim? > > Are you really that stupid? > Or, should I say, is it Wednesday again? > > Now go start another ATMB thread where you cry about being insulted in the Pit and admit that you’re dishonestly trying to “get someone in trouble” because you are a giant retarded child. No, I just realise that there is no factual answer to what is just and so state something is just as if it is a fact is, well, a little bit dishonest and stupid. But hey, that’s you rthing isn’t it? Which reminds me, you didn’t call me a liar. I’m hurt. I usually really enjoy that bit. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/185 "2011-05-04T15:30:07Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > My comment was in regards to this proposed “culture of fascination with violence” that America is being accused of being the sole proprietor of. It isn’t. True. I was distracted by FinnAgain being a bit of a twat again. Personally, I just accept that different cultures react in different ways. I find the American obsession with guns a bit weird, but Americans find our excitement over football weird. People are different and I try not to judge people just on being different to me. That’s why there’s certains types of discussions that I just don’t get into anymore, like the aforementioned guns. Different areas of the world are just different. But even then, FinnAgain is a bit of a cock. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/186 "2011-05-04T15:32:04Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > True, I was hasty. Let’s just say it gets messy with the PM’s involvement in the CoE. There’s a reason why Blair waited until he left office to “convert”. The reason for Blair waiting was that advisers correctly decided that as a British Prime Minister, we [“don’t do god”](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1429109/Campbell-interrupted-Blair-as-he-spoke-of-his-faith-We-dont-do-God.html) The British public would be suspicious of people professing and degree of deep faith. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/187 "2011-05-04T15:39:25Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Now go start another ATMB thread where you cry about being insulted in the Pit and admit that you’re dishonestly trying to “get someone in trouble” because you are a giant retarded child. Okay, now that was funny. This is the first zinger I’ve read in The Pit in a long while that actually made me laugh out loud. Well played, well played. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/188 "2011-05-04T15:40:37Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The reason for Blair waiting was that advisers correctly decided that as a British Prime Minister, we [“don’t do god”](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1429109/Campbell-interrupted-Blair-as-he-spoke-of-his-faith-We-dont-do-God.html) > > The British public would be suspicious of people professing and degree of deep faith. He was widely known to be religious whilst in office. Remember Paxman asking him if he prayed together with GWB? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/189 "2011-05-04T15:42:31Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > No, I just realise that there is no factual answer to what is just and so state something is just as if it is a fact is, well, a little bit dishonest and stupid No, you’re demonstrating that you’re a huge, flailing special-needs case, again. You are actually sufficiently retarded that you’re willing to argue that whenever someone argues for what is right and just, that they’re being “dishonest”, let alone “stupid”. You hydrocephalic waddling toddler, you are actually arguing that someone is both lying and stupid if they argue that something is just or unjust. And you’re doing so in the same exact post where you’re mewling about the use if the word “liar”, you utter idiot. P.S. Learn to multiquote, Commander Cognitively Challenged. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/190 "2011-05-04T15:44:05Z")
But seriously, I am also somewhat disgusted by the celebrations. College students who were 10 or less on that fateful 9/11 out partying because OBL was killed makes little sense. New Yorkers, otoh, who have that day burned in their memory get much more of a pass for feeling a sense of justice and reacting from a more visceral place. The reality is, his death is largely symbolic at this point rather than a resolution to anything. It’s not as if we just won anything by finally getting the individual. We have and, IMO still are making huge mistakes with our foreign policy and the American public lacks the will to really demand some answers and some changes. ftr; I’m also somewhat disgusted by the need to immediately turn this into some political football to toss around, by politicians and those who have such a knee jerk distaste for Obama that they can’t seem to allow him any accomplishment. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/191 "2011-05-04T15:48:42Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, you’re demonstrating that you’re a huge, flailing special-needs case, again. > You are actually sufficiently retarded that you’re willing to argue that whenever someone argues for what is right and just, that they’re being “dishonest”, let alone “stupid”. You hydrocephalic waddling toddler, you are actually arguing that someone is both lying and stupid if they argue that something is just or unjust. And you’re doing so in the same exact post where you’re mewling about the use if the word “liar”, you utter idiot. > > P.S. Learn to multiquote, Commander Cognitively Challenged. You didn’t argue for what is “just”. You told us what is “just” as if such a thing was a fact. There is a difference, but unfortunately you don’t appear to have the sufficient intelligence to understand it. ps. I know how to. I simply prefer to reply to posts individually. I’m afraid you’ll just have to deal with it, darling. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/192 "2011-05-04T16:13:21Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > The world would be a better place if we’d killed Hitler and released naked pictures of Betty Grable. Right on. [\](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV7eSpn9jC4) ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/193 "2011-05-04T17:05:44Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > Perhaps you need to be reminded of this quotation (attributed, possibly in error, > to Somerset Maugham): > > \*\*\*People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. \*\*\* For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!” But it’s “Saviour of 'is country” when the guns begin to shoot; An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please; An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool – you bet that Tommy sees! I seem to remember an awful outcry for action right after 9/11 … there were a hell of a lot of cars and trucks flying flags, and some serious numbers of people acting all anti-islam … ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/194 "2011-05-04T17:25:28Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Vengeance isn’t the only ‘‘natural’’ human reaction, or else I and swaths of people wouldn’t be feeling the way we do. Maybe I’ve read one too many books like _Lord of the Flies,_ but I generally don’t believe these kind of things just stop here. Violence fucking creeps me out. Everything from social psychology to history demonstrates the way it spreads and is reinforced and corrupts the human mind. One corpse of one scumbag may not seem like it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but it will all contribute to the desensitization of humans to acts of violence. It will fan the flames of both terrorism and anti-Muslim sentiment and probably result in some fresh hell for the American people. > > I was appalled by 9-11, I was appalled by the war in Iraq, and I’m appalled by this. It doesn’t have to be about moral superiority. Some of us just want the killing to stop. While I don’t love the celebration of death, what disturbs me even more is how quickly certain people feel entitled to shut down the debate. Feelings of vengeance aren’t the only ones that count. I was going to post, “This thread and the others prove that you guys just don’t get it, and probably never will, and we’re unlucky enough to be right next to you,” but your post gives me hope that there are some Americans who actually DO get it. Now, finish up your schooling and start changing the world already, would you? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/195 "2011-05-04T17:37:25Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I was going to post, “This thread and the others prove that you guys just don’t get it, and probably never will, and we’re unlucky enough to be right next to you,” Obnoxious, self-righteous and supporting new agey twaddle. I think this approaches the gold standard. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/196 "2011-05-04T17:40:11Z")
As usual, Samuel Jackson [says it best](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbB_HVcXpPk&feature=related). ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/197 "2011-05-04T17:53:53Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > He was widely known to be religious whilst in office. Remember Paxman asking him if he prayed together with GWB? True, I remember how uncomfortable he was with it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/198 "2011-05-04T18:02:30Z")
> [@olivesmarch](#): > > I was appalled by 9-11, I was appalled by the war in Iraq, and I’m appalled by this. I find your sentiments appalling, and if further provoked I may be forced into a _moue_ of distaste. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/199 "2011-05-04T18:11:40Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I was appalled by 9-11, I was appalled by the war in Iraq, and I’m appalled by this. It doesn’t have to be about moral superiority. Some of us just want the killing to stop. While I don’t love the celebration of death, what disturbs me even more is how quickly certain people feel entitled to shut down the debate. Feelings of vengeance aren’t the only ones that count. What you call a “debate” is you going into a courtroom and throwing buckets of blood on the families of the victims, calling them monsters for attending the trial. I don’t like violence either. I’m not celebrating Bin Laden’s death, as a death, on its own. But it isn’t right for Bin Laden to commit mass murder and get away with it, possibly helping future terrorist attacks. Is it? So isn’t it something to celebrate that we finally stopped that from happening? Yes, it is awkward, because while stopping that from happening is worthy of celebration, in this case it takes the form of a death. Just as it is awkward for families of victims of a small scale murderer to celebrate a guilty verdict in a death penalty case. But who created that awkward situation? Who committed mass murder and then refused to turn himself in quietly? We can’t celebrate finally stopping the guy because he resisted being stopped? Essentially, you are starting out by assuming the American Public are ghouls, and then deducing more false statements from your initial falsehood. Try starting out by supposing, just supposing, that most Americans aren’t ghouls. I know it’s hard for you. Compare the two thought processes: 1. The American Public are ghouls 2. We can safely extrapolate the actions of a tiny percentage to the whole country 3. Anyone celebrating Bin Laden being brought to justice is feeling only unbridled joy: They had already gotten over Bin Laden’s mass murdering and forgotten him, so this is nothing but joyful, cold bloodlust 4. The Americans so love blood that they are happier now than if 9/11 hadn’t happened 5. The American Public are ghouls 6. The American Public are not ghouls 7. We cannot safely extrapolate the actions of a tiny percentage to the whole country 8. People celebrating Bin Laden being brought to justice realize celebrating a death is awkward, but it isn’t their fault Bin Laden murdered 3000 of their fellow citizens to set up the awkward situation, and they aren’t feeling just unbridled joy: They had never gotten over Bin Laden’s mass murdering and forgotten him, making this a complex, emotional event filled with things like relief and closure as well as joy 9. Just as the family of the victim of a murderer can celebrate his guilty verdict in a death penalty case without being glad he killed their relative, Americans can celebrate finally catching a mass murderer on a bigger scale without being glad he did what he did 10. The American Public are not ghouls ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/200 "2011-05-04T18:39:31Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > 1. People celebrating Bin Laden being brought to justice realize celebrating a death is awkward, but it isn’t their fault Bin Laden murdered 3000 of their fellow citizens to set up the awkward situation, and they aren’t feeling just unbridled joy: They had never gotten over Bin Laden’s mass murdering and forgotten him, making this a complex, emotional event filled with things like relief and closure as well as joy It borders on the absurd, I would agree, to state that the American public is “fucking gruesome” for being relieved that Bin Laden is gone and happy that some justice has been meted out. I don’t at all endorse this pitting. Nevertheless … it _does_ strike me as at least uncouth to express the unbridled joy I’ve seen from a few quarters, expressions that we should have (say) defiled the corpse in however many ways and then paraded the defilement for everyone to see. That isn’t a lot of people, certainly no one I know personally. But they appear to exist and it makes me a bit uncomfortable. It seems like a bit more solemnity is apropos to this kind of situation – solemnity not being contradictory to relief or happiness but, very probably, _joy_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550.md?page=11)