# The American Public is Fucking Gruesome **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550 "2011-05-03T05:58:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/241 "2011-05-06T14:10:44Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’m glad that the arguments keep getting more and more absurd. Now we’ve actually got the claim that once we won WWII, we “didn’t make a big deal about it.” Hey, there was _certainly_ no dancing in the streets or other unbridled celebrations in the US when WW2 was over. No, none at all. > **[V-J Day in Times Square](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square)** > > V-J Day in Times Square is a photograph by Alfred Eisenstaedt that portrays a U.S. Navy sailor kissing a total stranger after grabbing her—a dental assistant—on Victory over Japan Day ("V-J Day") in New York City's Times Square on August 14, 1945. The photograph was published a week later in Life magazine, among many photographs of celebrations around the United States that were presented in a 12-page section entitled "Victory Celebrations". A two-page spread faces a montage of three sim Eisen... 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/242 "2011-05-06T14:50:51Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > _That’s the point._ Pablum about how “violence begets violence” does us no good in analyzing reality, especially in circumstances where violence is an appropriate response. **cmyk** basically made the same point without being a jerk about it. I understood what he was saying from the first post he made, but apparently it didn’t contain enough vitriol for you to connect with it. FTR, my take on _Lord of the Flies_ isn’t necessarily that ‘‘violence begets violence’’ - rather that violence is an inherent part of human nature that we cannot escape. Looking at the current state of the world, and the state of the world throughout human history, it is hard for me to argue with that. To be honest with you, though, I didn’t come in here to talk about English literature. I never referred to myself as a pacifist until this thread. I’ve always hated conflict (including the conflict in this thread) but I don’t think having an aversion to violence is the same thing as believing violence is never necessary. Thinking over the implications of this, I’m not sure it’s an appropriate label. You have a point about WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/243 "2011-05-06T14:54:12Z")
The original version of my post went into more detail regarding VE and VJ day, and the difference between a celebration that the war was over, versus a more gruesome dancing-on-Hitler’s-grave thing. I cut it back, and ought to have re-read it. My apologies. However, in the spirit of reconciliation, [here’s someone dancing at Auschwitz](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFzNBzKTS4I). ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/244 "2011-05-06T17:15:36Z")
In retrospect, I think it’d be kosher to dance in Hitler’s grave _now_. In a river in Russia somewhere. Anyone wanna get wet?! ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/245 "2011-05-06T17:21:15Z")
Wikipedia says “The remains were thoroughly burned and crushed, after which the ashes were thrown into the Biederitz river, a tributary of the nearby Elbe.” So, next time we’re in Magdeburg, it’s a date. I’ll buy the first post-dance round. This includes you, **Finn** , and of course you,\*\* Olives\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/246 "2011-05-06T17:45:43Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Yep. I couldn’t agree more. If you’re getting your impression of the “american public” from news sources, well, you’re only going to see the obnoxious, zealous uncouth…\ I mostly got my unpleasant impressions from the Straight Dope, where we frequently hold ourselves up as better than the unwashed masses. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/247 "2011-05-06T17:59:38Z")
Ahh, so it’s in “East” Germany… Kinda weird considering the history, but okay. At least we’re sure to have some good beer! Alcohol helps me loosen up my white-boy mooooves. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/248 "2011-05-06T18:01:00Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I mostly got my unpleasant impressions from the Straight Dope, where we frequently hold ourselves up as better than the unwashed masses. I’m feelin’ ya. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/249 "2011-05-06T18:03:22Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > However, in the spirit of reconciliation, [here’s someone dancing at Auschwitz](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFzNBzKTS4I). That was pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/250 "2011-05-06T18:17:58Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I’m feelin’ ya. I thought that was just a cat brushing up against me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/251 "2011-05-06T19:15:21Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > **cmyk** basically made the same point without being a jerk about it. His first set of claims included the idea that “Again, for sure violence begets violence… and eventually someone will take the higher ground, cut their losses and call a truce.” He both defended and (mildly) criticized the whole violence-begets-violence bit while maintaining that unwarranted violence was a bad thing, something that’s hardly a revelatory argument. My whole point was that there wasn’t a coherent principle at work besides “bad things are bad” and that muddying the water with v-b-v principles and such wasn’t helping. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/252 "2011-05-06T20:46:23Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > The United States had a tradition of photographing/viewing the bodies of slain outlaws long before Bonnie & Clyde. Well, maybe not **long** before on account of the mass distribution of photographs not happening until the latter half of the 19th century, but you get my point. When John Dillinger lay in a pool of his own blood, bystanders dipped their handkerchiefs in his blood to save as a neat piece of memorabilia and his body was displayed to the public in the morgue. I don’t know if fear was the main motivation or the fact that Dillinger, Clyde and Bonnie were famous. Don’t know about Dillinger but people in and around Dallas FEARED Bonnie and Clyde. Those two were nothing more nor less that mad dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/253 "2011-05-06T21:56:49Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Ahh, so it’s in “East” Germany… Kinda weird considering the history, but okay. At least we’re sure to have some good beer! Alcohol helps me loosen up my white-boy mooooves. Apparently SMERSH had the bits in the East, and when they were looking at turning operations over to the East Germans, they decided they’d better make a definite move. This is all from Wikipedia, so this is pretty much rumor, but there you go. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/254 "2011-05-07T12:53:35Z")
After the Nuremberg war criminals were hanged photos were published of their heads with the ropes still around their necks. Then the bodies were cremated, and their ashes dispersed, so that they could not be housed in a shrine later. At the time Nazism was a discredited ideology, so we could dis the leaders and get away with it. Currently, Islam is the second largest religion in the world, and most Muslims take their faith seriously. President Obama thought it would be unwise to anger them needlessly, especially when we need the support of as many as possible to protect us from the others. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/255 "2011-05-07T13:42:30Z")
Fucking hell, did you actually just compare Nazism as a discredited ideology with Islam? What the fuck is wrong with you? ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/256 "2011-05-07T14:50:12Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Fucking hell, did you actually just compare Nazism as a discredited ideology with Islam? > What the fuck is wrong with you? As I read it he did the opposite of say Islam is discredited, at least with a lot of people: he points out it is “the second largest religion in the world”. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/257 "2011-05-07T15:55:33Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Fucking hell, did you actually just compare Nazism as a discredited ideology with Islam? > What the fuck is wrong with you? What do you think he said? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/258 "2011-05-07T16:54:42Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Fucking hell, did you actually just compare Nazism as a discredited ideology with Islam? > What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you kidding me? Did your knee jerk so hard that it prevented you from actually reading the post? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/259 "2011-05-07T22:18:26Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > prevented you from actually reading the post? So you’re snarking about me not reading it… because you didn’t comprehend it? Really? Okay, let’s play remedial Dope. -When we executed Nazi war criminals we were able to display their bodies to the public. -This was because Nazism was a vile ideology that was discredited and we could “dis the leaders”. -Islam however is not discredited. -So we can not “dis” Bin Laden, as he is one of the leaders of Islam similar to the way that the Nuremberg trials punished the leaders of Nazism. -Further, showing the body of Bin Laden would anger “them”, Muslims in general. -And we need the support of “them”, Muslims in general, in order to protect us from other Muslims. -Because, after all, Bin Laden is one of their leaders, we can not dis him because rather than being discredited Islam has lots of followers. Was that really all too complicated for you? Next time you feel like being stupid and vomiting about “kneejerking”, it behooves you to actually understand what was said. Just, ya know, for appearance’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550/260 "2011-05-08T01:29:16Z")
I think you’re projecting a fair bit into **NDD** ’s argument there, **Finn**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-public-is-fucking-gruesome/580550.md?page=14)