# The American "R" (Pronunciation) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 6, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138 "2012-11-06T20:53:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/21 "2012-11-09T21:15:26Z")
I don’t understand either. Once you’ve begun saying “laaaa” how can it possibly change into a “raaaa”? The ‘l’ is done with, all you’re saying now is “aaaaaa”. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/22 "2012-11-09T21:38:06Z")
It’s easy for me. Put your tongue on the alveolar ridge and start making noise. You should be saying “lllllllllllllllllll”, now slowly move the tip of your tongue towards the back of your mouth – making sure that the tip stays touching the roof but allowing the rest of the tongue to move naturally. The “llllll” sound will morph into an “rrrrrrrrrrrrr”, but a very deep sonorous “r”, slightly different from the one you usually hear. You may not notice the different until you move between that sound and your natural r a few times. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/23 "2012-11-09T22:33:48Z")
Sounds like a gagging l to me. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/24 "2012-11-09T22:48:44Z")
But it’s not the same - as you move your tongue back, you get a sound that is less like an /l/ and sounds very slightly more /r/-ish. But it’s not really that close. It still sounds more like an /l/, although a weird one. At least not for me. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/25 "2012-11-09T22:54:35Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > It’s easy for me. Put your tongue on the alveolar ridge and start making noise. You should be saying “lllllllllllllllllll”, now slowly move the tip of your tongue towards the back of your mouth – making sure that the tip stays touching the roof but allowing the rest of the tongue to move naturally. The “llllll” sound will morph into an “rrrrrrrrrrrrr”, but a very deep sonorous “r”, slightly different from the one you usually hear. You may not notice the different until you move between that sound and your natural r a few times. Is this in response to my post? You’re describing a “rrrr” sound. The person I was responding to was describing a “raaa” sound. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/26 "2012-11-09T22:55:55Z")
I don’t mean “rrrrrr” as in a trill, I mean a continuous liquid sound that could easily be chained into a “raaaa” sound, which is what I think they meant. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/27 "2012-11-09T23:00:51Z")
> [@nikonikosuru](#): > > From what I’ve read, American /r/ is bunched; the tongue is pull back and the back of the tongue raises towards the velum. In most other languages the /r/ is retroflex- the tip of the tongue raises towards the roof of the hard palate. Does not seem true–my r (standard American) involves pointing the tip of the tongue at the hard palate, not all the way back to the soft palate. > [@](#): > > Start in the /l/ position and make the “LAAAA” noise. Slowly drag your tongue back until it hovers around the hard palate area of the roof. By then, you should be able to hear the “LAAAA” gradually change into a “RAAA.” That is the retroflex /r/. “Drag” here implies the tongue remains in contact with the roof of the mouth but that’s not what you mean is it? ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/28 "2012-11-10T00:53:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Is it unique? > > If not, who else uses this sound? If yes, what’s the history and origin of it? In the UK like north east part of US like in New York City the letter R is not pronuced. So park is pak and party is paty . ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/29 "2012-11-10T02:03:12Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I’ve tried this very carefully and for the life of me I can’t make that turn into an r sound. My r only comes out in the bunched shape, with the back of the tongue high and the tip low. Raising the tip makes it an l, and moving the tip back bunches the tongue in the throat and just leads to choking. Forget the aaaa. I think they phrased it poorly. Can you say “lurid”? Your tongue tip starts at the roof of your mouth, behind the teeth, and slides back, tip kept pointing up. It drops, shoots forward and is lightly pressed against the teeth for a D sound. If you start with the l and pull your tongue back dropping it, then up, then forward, and press against the teeth, you said “laird”. At least I do. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/30 "2012-11-10T04:46:00Z")
> [@FuzzyOgre](#): > > Forget the aaaa. I think they phrased it poorly. > > Can you say “lurid”? > > Your tongue tip starts at the roof of your mouth, behind the teeth, and slides back, tip kept pointing up. It drops, shoots forward and is lightly pressed against the teeth for a D sound. > > If you start with the l and pull your tongue back dropping it, then up, then forward, and press against the teeth, you said “laird”. > > At least I do. In my case there is what might be termed incidental contact by the tip of the tongue with the upper front teeth when I make the “d” sound. However, the sound can be made without any tongue-to-tooth contact at all. ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/31 "2012-11-10T05:15:43Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > However, the sound can be > made without any tongue-to-tooth contact at all. Yup. I can too. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/32 "2012-11-10T19:01:35Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Does not seem true–my r (standard American) involves pointing the tip of the tongue at the hard palate, not all the way back to the soft palate. For me, the tip of the tongue is not against the roof of the mouth, it is down. The mid portion of the tongue is in contact with the aveolar ridge or so. If I touch the tip of my tongue to the hard palate while making the r sound, it becomes an l. > [@FuzzyOgre](#): > > Forget the aaaa. I think they phrased it poorly. I’m ignoring the aaa. I don’t get rrr. Okay, sitting at home where I can make lots of weird noises without drawing attention, I guess the sound with my tongue tip on the soft palate is somewhat more r flavored than I gave it credit. Seems an awkward way to make the r sound that is much more clear the “American” way. > [@](#): > > Can you say “lurid”? > > Your tongue tip starts at the roof of your mouth, behind the teeth, and slides back, tip kept pointing up. It drops, shoots forward and is lightly pressed against the teeth for a D sound. That’s not how I say lurid at all. After the l, I drop the tip of my tongue and press the mid outer edges of the tongue to the roof. The u blends to the r. Then extend the tongue, dropping from roof contact and touching the tip of the tongue to the hard palate for the id. How much I want to emphasize the d sound makes the difference on stopping there, or flicking the tip of the tongue to make a duh sound at the end. There’s no dragging the tip of my tongue along the roof of the mouth. I never have the tip of my tongue that far back in my mouth while talking. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/33 "2012-11-10T21:54:36Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > For me, the tip of the tongue is not against the roof of the mouth, it is down. The mid portion of the tongue is in contact with the aveolar ridge or so. If I touch the tip of my tongue to the hard palate while making the r sound, it becomes an l. 😕 “Pointing at” =/= “against” ---
**Author:** ![nikonikosuru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f8ce5/32.png) [@nikonikosuru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikonikosuru)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/34 "2012-11-11T01:32:08Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Does not seem true–my r (standard American) involves pointing the tip of the tongue at the hard palate, not all the way back to the soft palate. > > “Drag” here implies the tongue remains in contact with the roof of the mouth but that’s not what you mean is it? My mistake for being too ambiguous. With the retroflex R, the tip points to the hard palate. For the bunched R, it is the root/back of the tongue that goes back and raised (bunches together, hence the “bunched r”) and touches the velum. Drag does not imply to touch the roof. If you continue to read the sentence, I continue with “until it hovers.” This is just to get an idea for the positioning and the difference of the /l/ and /r/ sound. ---
**Author:** ![nikonikosuru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f8ce5/32.png) [@nikonikosuru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikonikosuru)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/35 "2012-11-11T01:41:24Z")
[Bunched R.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZiMg6sPdEs) This video is really good because it shows how the back of the tongue raises towards the velum. [Retroflex R.](http://www.visiblemantra.org/images/retroflex.jpg) This [website](http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~krussll/phonetics/articulation/describing-consonants.html) calls it an approximant and describes the tongue as having its tip curled upwards, past the alveolar ridge and backwards. If you get to the soft spot (soft palate or velum) and are choking on your own tongue, you are going too far. ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/36 "2012-11-11T02:36:23Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > That’s not how I say lurid at all. After the l, I drop the tip of my tongue and press the mid outer edges of the tongue to the roof. The u blends to the r. Then extend the tongue, dropping from roof contact and touching the tip of the tongue to the hard palate for the id. How much I want to emphasize the d sound makes the difference on stopping there, or flicking the tip of the tongue to make a duh sound at the end. > > There’s no dragging the tip of my tongue along the roof of the mouth. I never have the tip of my tongue that far back in my mouth while talking. That is interesting. I can do either. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/37 "2012-11-11T04:28:15Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > 😕 “Pointing at” =/= “against” Intermingling descriptions from different people. **Jragon** said > [@Jragon](#): > > It’s easy for me. Put your tongue on the alveolar ridge and start making noise. You should be saying “lllllllllllllllllll”, now slowly move the tip of your tongue towards the back of your mouth – making sure that the tip stays touching the roof but allowing the rest of the tongue to move naturally. > [@nikonikosuru](#): > > [Bunched R.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZiMg6sPdEs) This video is really good because it shows how the back of the tongue raises towards the velum. > > [Retroflex R.](http://www.visiblemantra.org/images/retroflex.jpg) This [website](http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~krussll/phonetics/articulation/describing-consonants.html) calls it an approximant and describes the tongue as having its tip curled upwards, past the alveolar ridge and backwards. If you get to the soft spot (soft palate or velum) and are choking on your own tongue, you are going too far. Those links are interesting. I went and looked in the mirror, my tongue is mostly bunched, not really pointed at all. It turns out the tip does appear to go slightly up toward the alveolar ridge, but it is so bunched it is not like I really have a tip of the tongue, and it feels like it is pointed more downward. Pointing the tip upward makes an l sound. This video is interesting. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4wEIsyqu_Jo/hqdefault.jpg "Q&A: How do you pronounce the "R" sound--the American R") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wEIsyqu_Jo) I can’t imagine making an r by curling upward and rolling out that coiled tool. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/38 "2012-11-12T05:12:04Z")
I’m a native English speaker and I can easily make the r-as-in-ruby sound with the tip of my tongue pointing down, so, I don’t know what all the alveolish fuss is about. It’s more important for the back of the tongue to be pushed back and high in the mouth for a good rrrrrrrrr sound. Or, just growl. Grrrrr. Or, talk like a pirate, arrrrrrrr. I consider the English-r-sound to be a vowel, precisely because you can sustain the growled rrrrrrr. It exists as a pure vowel in father, mother, fir. But where the confusion comes in is that it is often diphthong with other vowel sounds, which changes its sound. Going to or from other vowel sounds, the English-r-sound tends to ‘color’ them. The words ‘are,’ ‘or,’ ‘ear’ all end in the same r-position. It’s the movement of the jaw, lips, and tongue closing into the English-r-sound which makes it sound like the initial vowels are being ‘colored’ by the English-r-sound. It’s like we’re eating those delicious vowels, and growling at anyone who’s going to try to take them out of our mouth. Just like the sound of long-i (eye) is a diphthong of short a (ah) and long e (ee) [ah\>ee = eye], so to are ‘are,’ ‘or,’ and ‘ear’ diphthongs. The movement of the parts of the mouth gliding from one position to another seems to create a new vowel sound. Or, look at the words ‘yen’ and ‘wren’ (ignore the silent ‘w’). The vowel sound in ‘yen’ is a long e (ee) diphthonged into a short e (eh). And ‘wren’ is a diphthonged English-r-sound into a short e. The English-r-sound isn’t the easiest of vowel sound to jump in and out of. Even native English speakers mangle a phrase like “rural juror” (made fun of in an episode of 30 Rock). And native English speakers confuse close ‘r-controlled’ diphthongs. For example, many English speakers pronounce ‘our’ like ‘are’ when it’s not accented in a sentence, “Is this ‘are’ table?” (it should always sound like ‘hour’). Or, they don’t make clear (or even hear) the difference between the sounds of ‘oar’ and ‘or’ – they supposedly aren’t supposed to sound the same (oh\>r versus aw\>r) – but I can’t hear the difference! ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/39 "2012-11-12T18:06:28Z")
Just for grins, I just made the rrr sound with the tip of my tongue touching my bottom teeth. It takes a bit of the rr out and makes it a bit more lll. Even with a growl. ---
**Author:** ![Freakenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b782af/32.png) [@Freakenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freakenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138/40 "2012-11-12T21:19:27Z")
All I know is You can tell a real Scottish lass by the way she rolls her R’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-r-pronunciation/640138.md?page=3)