# The American Talibans... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 20, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048 "2005-06-20T14:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/61 "2005-06-21T10:55:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And, naturally, we cannot meaningfully proceed until we have the definitive Libertarian viewpoint on the question at hand. Thank goodness we always have you to point out the Indian in the woodpile. Otherwise, we might have people expressing ideas that aren’t like ours. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/62 "2005-06-21T12:43:52Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Well it seems UncleBeer’s decided to pick on my OPs today… and demands there should be a reason for my threads. Firstly I thought the BBQ pit was for BBQing and ranting away. So no reason needed right ? I thought both were authentic pieces of American right wing christian lunacy. (Naturally not being representative of the whole nation) I thought they spoke for themselves… but if you want someone to explain to you why they might be scary feel free. > > Secondly your “strict” interpretation of the SDMB is plain silly… since I don’t know for a fact that the quotes are false. I sure recognized more than a few as ancient and authentic. None of them seem made up. I’d be happy to learn that most of them weren’t true at all and that there aren’t that many raging armageddon nuts in the most powerful country in the world. > > If you can provide enough links with quotes from these christian celebrities where no such quotes exist I will apologize for slandering their good christian names… I certainly don’t think these quotes seem fakes. Even if naturally some might be “out of context”. > > Now if all you want is to pick on me for no good reason … please waste your time elsewhere kiddo. No Thanks. > > ``` > Rashak Mani > > ``` I see. You apparently don’t care if what you post here is accurate. In order to be valid it only has to fit your prejudices. Idiots like you are the bane of this board. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/63 "2005-06-21T13:40:41Z")
> [@](#): > > If you can provide enough links with quotes from these christian celebrities where no such quotes exist I will apologize for slandering their good christian names… I certainly don’t think these quotes seem fakes. Even if naturally some might be “out of context”. Your the one who posted the link, bucky. I’m not going to do your fucking research for you. It’s up to you to validate their accuracy. Even if you do, the page is still pretty much worthless, since it mixes unattributed, undated, context-free ‘quotes’ from people with very different viewpoints and political agendas. Tell you what, I’ll spot you the first one attributed to Ann Coulter, 'cause I’ve seen the column where she made that statement. Now, how 'bout the rest, and for those that are accurate, what do you propose be done about them? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/64 "2005-06-21T15:17:21Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Your the one who posted the link, bucky. I’m not going to do your fucking research for you. It’s up to you to validate their accuracy. > > Even if you do, the page is still pretty much worthless, since it mixes unattributed, undated, context-free ‘quotes’ from people with very different viewpoints and political agendas. > > Tell you what, I’ll spot you the first one attributed to Ann Coulter, 'cause I’ve seen the column where she made that statement. Now, how 'bout the rest, and for those that are accurate, what do you propose be done about them? I’m not the OP, but if you really want to play that game, sure thing. I bet I can prove that more are accurate than you can prove are inaccurate. I’ll start. Ann Coulter 1. [http://www.anncoulter.org/columns/2001/091301.htm](http://www.anncoulter.org/columns/2001/091301.htm) 2. [Error](http://www.freerepublic.com/~dagnabbit/) 3. [http://www.mcrcnet.org/Reports/2004/032004/defamation032004.htm](http://www.mcrcnet.org/Reports/2004/032004/defamation032004.htm) Bailey Smith 1. [http://www.religioustolerance.org/quotes5.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/quotes5.htm) Beverly LaHaye 1. [http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=3151](http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=3151) Bob Dornan 1. [Dirty Politics](http://www.whale.to/v/keske4.html) David Barton 1. [The Bush campaign has hired David Barton who calls the U.S. a 'Christian nation' - Beliefnet](http://www.beliefnet.com/story/154/story_15469_1.html) David Trosch 1. [Trosch.org | Blog sobre la fe cristiana](http://www.trosch.org/the/failed_sodomy.html) Fob James 1. [http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/alabam14.htm](http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/alabam14.htm) 2. [School corporal punishment, USA, Feb 2004 - CORPUN ARCHIVE uss00402](http://www.corpun.com/uss00402.htm) I was even nice enough to stop before getting to Freddy’s quotes, of which I’m pretty sure no one doubts the veracity, just to make it a bit easier for you in the first round. Your turn. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/65 "2005-06-21T15:39:34Z")
OK. The James Watt quote is made up. He may have said lots of stupid things, but I’m pretty sure “We don’t have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand” has been debunked. So we’ve got that one, the Bush one about God telling him to go to war as well (which from what I’ve seen is a translation of a translation of a what someone recalls him saying two weeks later), the Rehnquist quote which (IMHO) is about interpretation of the law and not his personal beliefs. As for the rest- I’m shocked- shocked!- Ann Coulter/Fred Phelps/Randall Terry have such hateful and stupid things to say. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/66 "2005-06-21T16:08:48Z")
The James Watt quote was indeed bogus. The source given for the Bob Dornan quote a few posts above was just an assertion, not a documentation. The Rev. Bailey Smith quote is indeed sadly accurate but also irrelevant- it’s over 20 years old, has been apologized for repeatedly by him with the apologies being accepted by Jewish leaders who knew him, was immediately decried by every major conservative religious figure (including Falwell & Robertson), and besides- have you ever heard of the Rev. Bailey Smith in any other context than when that quote gets paraded around? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/67 "2005-06-21T16:13:36Z")
The James Watt quote was indeed bogus. Another fake quote attributed to him was recently cited by Bill Moyers “When the last tree is cut down, then Jesus will return.” What Watt DID say (and this is a paraphrase) was something like “As Interior Secretary, I have the responsibility of being steward of the environment until Christ comes back.” Kinda odd, but not the smoking gun of Fundy Loonyness. The source given for the Bob Dornan quote a few posts above was just an assertion, not a documentation. The Rev. Bailey Smith quote is indeed sadly accurate but also irrelevant- it’s over 20 years old, has been apologized for repeatedly by him with the apologies being accepted by Jewish leaders who knew him, was immediately decried by every major conservative religious figure (including Falwell & Robertson), and besides- have you ever heard of the Rev. Bailey Smith in any other context than when that quote gets paraded around? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/68 "2005-06-21T16:15:45Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > I was even nice enough to stop before getting to Freddy’s quotes, of which I’m pretty sure no one doubts the veracity, just to make it a bit easier for you in the first round. Yeah, but does Freddy really count? Can’t we just all disown him preemptively? I mean, you wouldn’t quote Lyndon Larouche as a voice for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/69 "2005-06-21T16:39:44Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Yeah, but does Freddy really count? Can’t we just all disown him preemptively? I mean, you wouldn’t quote Lyndon Larouche as a voice for Democrats. I’m actually glad you brought that up and agree completely. When quotes like those in the OP are bought up, they seem to be either derided or defended along party lines. Idiots are idiots, regardless of their party affiliation. Freddy is probably the worst of the bunch above, yet is a registered Democrat. That doesn’t stop me from calling him a hateful sack of fecal feasting fungi. Why wouldn’t everyone on all sides do the same? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/70 "2005-06-21T17:20:34Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > What the **fuck?** > I think the we deserve an explenation for that little turn of phrase. I hope it was simply a very poorly crafted bit of sarcasm, but if not I think that a new Pit thread should be opened. Well seeing that “recent” thread mentioned by UncleBeer, the fact that I put the words “target” and “distraction” it seems quite obvious I meant that jews were picked on for specific reasons. They unfortunately make for good targets and distraction. I usually bookmark all threads I respond too… but being human I obviously failed to return to that one. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/71 "2005-06-21T17:28:11Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > I see. You apparently don’t care if what you post here is accurate. In order to be valid it only has to fit your prejudices. Idiots like you are the bane of this board. Well you seem not to care if the quotes are or not accurate ! I never said I didn’t care… just that they seemed legit. I’ve seen plenty of Dan Quayle quotes attributed to Bush Jr and I wouldn’t post fakes. DMC actually bothered to run after some of the quotes… thanks… ``` Now if one has to painstakingly research every quote due to anal retentive board members its going to be a hard time posting in the SMDB BBQ pit. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/72 "2005-06-21T17:39:23Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Well seeing that “recent” thread mentioned by UncleBeer, the fact that I put the words “target” and “distraction” it seems quite obvious I meant that jews were picked on for specific reasons. They unfortunately make for good targets and distraction. I usually bookmark all threads I respond too… but being human I obviously failed to return to that one. Yes, April is _ancient history_. :rolleyes: I (not **Uncle Beer** ) dug through the GD ruins and excavated that gem to highlight the fact that while you’re shocked, _shocked_ at extremism among selected American Christians, you’re not above causing offense to people of a different religious through shopworn stereotypes. Your “specific reasons” are invalid in a great many cases. How about an acknowledgment of that? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/73 "2005-06-21T17:50:55Z")
I wasn’t offending jews in case you didn’t notice… but that jews do stick out and that the Nazi regime chose them as the perfect scapegoats is what I was talking about. Emphasis on scapegoat… the OP was about why right wingers hate jews. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/74 "2005-06-21T17:54:59Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Well seeing that “recent” thread mentioned by UncleBeer, the fact that I put the words “target” and “distraction” it seems quite obvious I meant that jews were picked on for specific reasons. They unfortunately make for good targets and distraction. I usually bookmark all threads I respond too… but being human I obviously failed to return to that one. Even though I think you’re being unfairly jumped on here (hell, you didn’t make the quotes up, you linked to a site which contained them) and that you sure as hell don’t deserve any scorn for not returning to that thread to answer (anyone who wants to continue down that trail will quickly see a ton of links to threads in which they forgot to return), I still don’t think your answer here gets you off the hook in an “obvious” manner. I don’t understand what your statement in that thread was supposed to mean, and while this topic was admittedly a hijack, if what you posted was indeed inflammatory, then pitting others for making inflammatory statements is not really going to get you a lot of support. Care to further enlighten those of us who are willing to give you the benefit of doubt? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/75 "2005-06-21T17:55:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I was even nice enough to stop before getting to Freddy’s quotes, of which I’m pretty sure no one doubts the veracity, just to make it a bit easier for you in the first round. > > Your turn. My turn for what? Proving or disproving these is not my problem. > [@](#): > > When quotes like those in the OP are bought up, they seem to be either derided or defended along party lines. What, I’m a Republican, or maybe even a Christian, now? News to me. Here, let me repeat let me repeat the main point of my previous post: > [@](#): > > Even if you do, the page is still pretty much worthless, since it mixes unattributed, undated, context-free ‘quotes’ from people with very different viewpoints and political agendas. In other words, it’s a bad source. It has no particular value. Objecting to it has nothing to do with party affiliation, it has to do with at least some of it being crap. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/76 "2005-06-21T17:57:39Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > I wasn’t offending jews in case you didn’t notice… but that jews do stick out and that the Nazi regime chose them as the perfect scapegoats is what I was talking about. Emphasis on scapegoat… the OP was about why right wingers hate jews. My post above was started prior to this, so we’re narrowing it down somewhat, and I think I might even have an inkling as to where you’re coming from, but am not quite there. Define “stick out” and we’ll be a lot closer to understanding. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/77 "2005-06-21T18:11:58Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > My turn for what? Proving or disproving these is not my problem. If you wish to call a cite into question, it is indeed your job to show some evidence. Hell, I don’t get all giggly about the potential veracity of some of them, but quite a few of them are indeed completely accurate, and while I happen to be aware of at least one of them being unsubstantiated, you haven’t offered a single iota of evidence of the cite having problems, other than hand-waving. > [@](#): > > What, I’m a Republican, or maybe even a Christian, now? News to me. If you care to show me where I claimed this was a universal truth, with no exceptions, then your question might have merit. My statement was neither directed at you, nor in reference to you. I also was quite clear that the partisanship was demonstrated by both sides when it happens. > [@](#): > > Here, let me repeat let me repeat the main point of my previous post: > > > [@](#): > > > > Even if you do, the page is still pretty much worthless, since it mixes unattributed, undated, context-free ‘quotes’ from people with very different viewpoints and political agendas. While you might find the page itself worthless, the pitting is still very much warranted, as a large number of them have been demonstrated to be just as inflammatory when attributed, dated, and shown in context. I’m not sure what the fact that they have different viewpoints or political agendas has to do with anything. I’d guess that the various members of the Taliban weren’t all Borg-like in their group-think. > [@](#): > > In other words, it’s a bad source. I don’t necessarily consider it a flawless source. > [@](#): > > It has no particular value. While that might be true, you haven’t yet made a case for it. Some of those people have downright scary ideas. In and of itself, that’s not so bad. Some of them have power and influence. That **is** bad. > [@](#): > > Objecting to it has nothing to do with party affiliation, it has to do with at least some of it being crap. And the rest of it? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/78 "2005-06-21T18:13:48Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > My post above was started prior to this, so we’re narrowing it down somewhat, and I think I might even have an inkling as to where you’re coming from, but am not quite there. > > Define “stick out” and we’ll be a lot closer to understanding. “Stick out” as having different clothes, hairstyle, tend to be highly educated and have different religious practices. I don’t think they were specifically hated by right wingers as in the OP but that they were the perfect target due to “sticking out”: ie: For being different. Poor working german took to the idea quite easily. Naturally a few high german leaders had personal issues with Jews… but that isn’t a right wing thing necessarily. Jews were universally picked on. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/79 "2005-06-21T18:23:07Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > I wasn’t offending jews in case you didn’t notice… I wasn’t offending you when I called you a mother fucker. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/80 "2005-06-21T18:41:59Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Well seeing that “recent” thread mentioned by UncleBeer, the fact that I put the words “target” and “distraction” it seems quite obvious I meant that jews were picked on for specific reasons. They unfortunately make for good targets and distraction. I usually bookmark all threads I respond too… but being human I obviously failed to return to that one. So do you hold or retract your claims that Jews have lots of money and stick out like a sore thumb? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048.md?page=5)