# The American Talibans... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 20, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048 "2005-06-20T14:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/81 "2005-06-21T18:45:18Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > “Stick out” as having different clothes, hairstyle, tend to be highly educated and have different religious practices. Just to put a finer point on it, this is ignorant and offensive rhetoric and not what you really believe, right? You’re not honestly suggesting that people ‘look Jewish’ or that you could tell someone’s religion now, or in Germany, based on their clothes or hair style? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/82 "2005-06-21T18:46:05Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > So do you hold or retract your claims that Jews have lots of money and stick out like a sore thumb? ``` Orthodox Jews do stick out ! Some Jews do have lots of money ! That is why they made such good targets which is my point. Naturally the fact that most jews aren't rich or dress differently is conveniently overlooked. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/83 "2005-06-21T18:48:22Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > You’re not honestly suggesting that people ‘look Jewish’ or that you could tell someone’s religion now, or in Germany, based on their clothes or hair style? Oh no… I just ask people if they are Hare Krishna… because you know their shaved heads just don’t signal it enough to me. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/84 "2005-06-21T19:08:05Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Orthodox Jews do stick out ! Some Jews do have lots of money ! That is why they made such good targets which is my point. Naturally the fact that most jews aren’t rich or dress differently is conveniently overlooked. It’s conveiently overlooked because of hamfisted generalizations like “Jews stick out” or “Jews have lots of money”. And simply for the record, no, Orthodox Jews, as a rule, do not stick out, but many of the ultra-orthodox do. If you mean to say that some Jews, and a decidedly small subset of us, by the way, have distinguishing features/behaviors, then that’s a far better thing to say than “Jews stick out and have lots of money.” > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Oh no… I just ask people if they are Hare Krishna… because you know their shaved heads just don’t signal it enough to me. That’s just stupid. There are many, many, many Jews in this country and the world over who don’t have any features like ‘shaved heads’ to pick them out by. People can be Ethopian, Russian, Spanish, etc… and still trace their genetic lineage back to ancient Jews. People can convert to Judaism, and they are, at least by most Jews, considered to be fully Jewish. Hell, you could be sitting next to a Jew the next time you eat lunch and have no clue that they’re Jewish. In short, your formulation is, at best, ignorant and dangerous, and at worst bigoted and offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/85 "2005-06-21T19:26:55Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > That’s just stupid. There are many, many, many Jews in this country and the world over who don’t have any features like ‘shaved heads’ to pick them out by. > > … Hell, you could be sitting next to a Jew the next time you eat lunch and have no clue that they’re Jewish. In short, your formulation is, at best, ignorant and dangerous, and at worst bigoted and offensive. Its \*\*not what I think \*\* or not of jews that is the issue… its the fact that if you want to pick on a black… you get a guy with dark skin and you pick on him. If you want to pick on a jew… you pick on the guys with the different clothing and hair. Now if he doesn’t wear anything wierd… we just look for the jewish names in the phone book and then pick on him. Naturally more than a few will be left out of the stereotypes. Still it doesn’t stop people from picking on blacks, jews, asians, white trash, or any other group. I’m just saying that some stick out… and were convenient fodder for distraction. Its the nature of discrimination. Now if you want to be politically correct and pretend that people aren’t singled out fine… that blacks are well loved and equally treated members of the community… fine. That jewish names and clothing are never different from “regular” germans… fine. Its simply not true. Stereotypes can be very wrong… ok… we know that. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/86 "2005-06-21T19:28:55Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > If you wish to call a cite into question, it is indeed your job to show some evidence. In some instances, yes. But not, however, when you’re using it as the foundation for the opening salvo of an argument. In that case, which is what we have here, the responsibility for ensuring accuracy lies entirely with the guy making the OP. If I wanted to argue against a point someone was making a point supported by a quotation I might doubt the accuracy of, then, yeah, it’s my job to impeach the source. but that ain’t what’s going on here. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/87 "2005-06-21T20:02:28Z")
Don’t forget their big noses, Rashak. You can tell them by their big Jew noses too. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Sarcasm people, sarcasm ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/88 "2005-06-21T20:23:10Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Its \*\*not what I think \*\* or not of jews that is the issue… its the fact that if you want to pick on a black… you get a guy with dark skin and you pick on him. If you want to pick on a jew… you pick on the guys with the different clothing and hair. Don’t forget skin conditioner and aftershave. Poor **Rashak**. There will always be people like [this](http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=7061) to totally confuse him. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/89 "2005-06-21T20:30:17Z")
[And this one](http://getreligion.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/starbucks_jesus_1.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/90 "2005-06-21T20:31:33Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > If you want to pick on a jew… you pick on the guys with the different clothing and hair. Now if he doesn’t wear anything wierd… we just look for the jewish names in the phone book and then pick on him. > . so my former boss named Steinberg would have selected? he was black. so was my former employee Flanagan. different clothing and hair, well if the Pope fits… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/91 "2005-06-21T20:41:24Z")
Jesus Christ, people, he’s not talking about _his_ perceptions of Jews, he’s talking about how _bigots_ perceive Jews. Of all the stupid arguments I’ve seen on these boards, this one is definetly somewhere in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/92 "2005-06-21T20:57:26Z")
I don’t agree **Miller**. Although his position is greatly ameliorated by his statement that he’s just repeating racist slogans… It still would’ve been nice if instead of saying “Jews stick out” and “Jews have lots of money” if he said that was a common slur, or what have you. As it stands, it was very hard to tell that those thoughts weren’t his own. As I’m sure you can imagine, a history of persecution can make one a bit edgy around certain slurs, especially slurs that’ve traditonally led to death and pain. It’d be like someone, in a thread asking why people hate gays saying “Well, gays are effeminite promiscous wimps who have unprotected sex without caring about their partners and they want to corrupt children especially underage boys and they lisp and have limp wrists so they’re an easy target.” And then coming back to qualify it, after a half dozen posts, by saying “Oh, no, that’s the bigoted position. Not mine.” ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/93 "2005-06-21T21:11:36Z")
Did somebody just said, “Jesus Christ”? Taliban is here! Taliban is HERE! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/94 "2005-06-21T21:34:40Z")
**FinnAgain** , I can see how his initial post could be read like that, but how many times does the guy have to clarify what he meant before people stop busting in with the sextuple-rolleye-smileys? I figured it out around the fourth go-round, and I’m not exactly a super genius over here. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/95 "2005-06-21T21:38:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > **FinnAgain** , I can see how his initial post could be read like that, but how many times does the guy have to clarify what he meant before people stop busting in with the sextuple-rolleye-smileys? I figured it out around the fourth go-round, and I’m not exactly a super genius over here. Ah, agreed. After post 85 I chalked it up to severe boneheadedness rather than any malice or bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/96 "2005-06-21T22:23:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Jesus Christ, people, he’s not talking about _his_ perceptions of Jews, he’s talking about how _bigots_ perceive Jews. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Oh no… **I** just ask people if they are Hare Krishna… because you know their shaved heads just don’t signal it enough **to me** (bolding added). Sounds like **Rashak** thinks he himself has an infallible eye for the “different” ones based on external appearance. Hopefully he’s starting to get the idea of the problems associated with ethnic stereotyping. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/97 "2005-06-21T22:37:50Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Sounds like **Rashak** thinks he himself has an infallible eye for the “different” ones based on external appearance. Yeah, it does. If you ignore everything else he’s posted in this thread, and the post to which he was directly responding. Taken in context, though, it’s pretty fucking clear that that’s **not** what he thinks. > [@](#): > > Hopefully he’s starting to get the idea of the problems associated with ethnic stereotyping. Or he’s starting to get the idea of the problems associated with trying to defend himself to some of you people once you’ve already made up his mind what he thinks, no matter how contrary it is to everything he’s actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/98 "2005-06-21T22:52:36Z")
Okay, that was snarkier than necessary. Sorry. But the basic point still stands. There are particular modes of dress and hairstyles that are associated with Jews, and these have historically been elements of their repression. Pointing this out is not the same as saying that _all_ Jews dress the same way, and it is certainly a far cry from _endorsing_ said persecution. All of which **Rashak Mani** has said himself, repeatedly, in this very thread. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/99 "2005-06-21T23:02:41Z")
Course, there’s still the _name_ thing that irked me. I grew up in a town that had a diverse population, if you called"99.9% white, but we’ll let one hispanic family and two Asian families come in," diverse. Not all were Christian, however. and very few of them had what many folks seem to see as ‘traditionally Jewish’ names. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/100 "2005-06-21T23:22:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > .Or he’s starting to get the idea of the problems associated with trying to defend himself to some of you people once you’ve already made up his mind what he thinks, no matter how contrary it is to everything he’s actually said. Sometimes the burden of being “misunderstood” is lightened by thinking before speaking. Anyway, time to let this go, as I need to get home for dinner (mmmm, fried chicken and watermelon tonight!). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048.md?page=6)