# The American Talibans... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 20, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048 "2005-06-20T14:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/101 "2005-06-21T23:27:59Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Sometimes the burden of being “misunderstood” is lightened by thinking before speaking. And the burden of muscle soreness can be lessened by ceasing to flog a dead horse. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/102 "2005-06-21T23:42:27Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Sometimes the burden of being “misunderstood” is lightened by thinking before speaking. Sure. By the same token, once the misunderstanding has been cleared up, it’s churlish to continue harping on the person for the misunderstanding. It’s understandable that his original comments were misinterpreted as anti-Semetic. It’s pretty jerkish to keep treating him like an anti-Semite once you’ve learned that his worst fault is not being a good communicator. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/103 "2005-06-22T01:36:47Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Did somebody just said, “Jesus Christ”? Taliban is here! Taliban is HERE! :: sigh :: Kinda makes you nostalgic for **Brutus** , doesn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/104 "2005-06-22T02:06:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sure. By the same token, once the misunderstanding has been cleared up, it’s churlish to continue harping on the person for the misunderstanding. Yeah, I’m just a churlish kind of guy, reading false motives into innocent comments. For instance, I must have misunderstood this remark of **Rashak’s** (from [a thread on Mel Gibson’s _Passion_ movie](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=237442)): > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > The way jews cry anti semitism for just about anything I wouldn’t give the issue much concern… and historically the jews did have some part in killing jesus… but that was 2004 years ago (or 2010 according to some)… so who cares. I would suppose the current jews have other sins to care about. And I must have missed the significance of this one (from [a thread on why Jews vote Democratic:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284966) > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > So why do Neo-Cons keep babbling about Israel ? I thought there was a heavy jewish lobby for these kind of nuts in order to bolster Israel. Or Jews are just prudent and support any party in power in order to help Israel ? You’re right, he’s a doll. I’ll stop picking on him now. **mhendo** : your dead horse is neighing. I think he wants some oats. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/105 "2005-06-22T02:08:29Z")
Ah. Of course, I should have known about those other posts, seeing as I have an encyclopedic memory of everything that’s ever been posted on these boards. My bad, there. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/106 "2005-06-22T03:44:32Z")
Hell, **Miller** , I didn’t specifically remember those posts either. There was only the memory of a bad odor about some past threads in which he’d participated. I wouldn’t have bothered searching for them, but for this harping on poor misunderstood **Rashak** , he who is so indignant about religious intolerance. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/107 "2005-06-22T03:55:37Z")
These types of pages always fill me with an at first uncomfortable but then pleasing mixture of both humor and horror. It’s sorta like a rollercoaster where your body thinks you’re going to die a horrible death but then you’re OK because there are seat belts and safety bars. What’s even scarier is meeting and talking with people like this in real life, especially if they have control over facets of your life and/or government. Look down, praise Jayzus, and get outta there! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/108 "2005-06-22T03:59:49Z")
Okay, fair enough. My defence may have been misjudged. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/109 "2005-06-22T05:23:54Z")
Oh, there’s more from **Mr. Mani** : [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4473547&postcount=63](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4473547&postcount=63) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5202413&postcount=18](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5202413&postcount=18) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5459591&postcount=12](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5459591&postcount=12) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5459748&postcount=15](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5459748&postcount=15) [same thread] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5585431&postcount=27](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5585431&postcount=27) In which he answers why people hate Jews: > [@](#): > > If you have a community that is closed… keeps to itself and makes sure the money stays in their community as much as possible… dresses wierdly, doesn’t work saturdays… and talk in a wierd language… is it that strange to think of them as “wierd” or “outsiders” ? I don’t think so. Hating is bad… but the reasons seem apparent to all. Care to explain again, **Rashak Mani**? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/110 "2005-06-22T06:38:49Z")
Thanks **Gum** So… > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Funny no one mentioned that jews (everywhere) are very highly educated… Indeed… and what bigoted group were you paroting there? Those’re someone else’s words again, right? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/111 "2005-06-22T13:33:27Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Care to explain again, **Rashak Mani**? #1 Quote: Being rich is never an advantage ? Rich in Nazi Germany wasn’t an advantage… if you were a Jew. Disagree ? Being a poor jew didn’t help either. #2 Israel isn’t a normal example of Middle East democracy. Disagree ? I even compared them to a piece of europe being transplanted. #3 & #4 Were more picking on Neo-cons and #4 attributing Jewish higher education for their seemingly heavy support (87%) for the democrats. #5 The same talk about how discrimination works… I know you guys live in PC land… Jews are different ? Yep… Did I ever say Jews deserved what they got ? Nope. Unfortunately discrimination works quicker when you stand out due to skin or clothing. History and religion unfortunately ended up dealing a heavy hand to the jews. We were discussing why… and I stand by thinking that the jews ended up sticking out and were used. (Example: They became bankers because Catholicism was against interest. So not their making either.) Jews being well educated might be a stereotype… but in Brazil the very few I met were indeed well above average. I was impressed. That part of the quote was left out naturally. Well to sum it up… Gum just got every single quote where I said “jew” and obviously shock horror someone is saying jews were different… oh the horror ! Blacks are different too ! Oh ! Sorry for hurting your political correct sensitivity americanos. Naturally I am no fan of what Israel is up to… that much is clear… but I shouldn’'t hold it against Jews. Which in fact are in fact quite a rarity over here. (Most were converted forcefully to Catholicism before running away from europe). ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/112 "2005-06-22T13:41:13Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Jews being well educated might be a stereotype… but in Brazil the very few I met were indeed well above average. I was impressed. That part of the quote was left out naturally. “It might be a bigoted statement that’s caused hatred and resentment over the years, but, hey, I was in Brazil!” You didn’t say that those Jews you’d met were highly educated but that Jews **everywhere** were. You’re backpeddling. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Blacks are different too ! Oh ! Sorry for hurting your political correct sensitivity americanos. Why don’t you explain exactly how Jews are quite so different from the rest of society, eh? And none of this bullshit about wearing different clothes or talking strange languages, because the vast majority do not. Anymore than it’d be accurate to say that Christians are snake handlers. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Naturally I am no fan of what Israel is up to… that much is clear… Heavens forfend they try to avoid yet another attempt at genocide aimed at them! What bastards! ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/113 "2005-06-22T13:59:16Z")
What do you want me to say Finn ? That jews are just like regular fare christians… especially in Germany ? That the stereotypes are irrelevant to what happened in WWII ? Even if most don’t fit. Somehow they got picked on… why ? It wasn’t due to their political involvement (non-involvement in fact)… it wasn’t due to economic problems they didn’t cause. I’m not for branding them… but they were branded. Some of the reasons were of their making… maybe… but hardly justification for anything. Blacks look different… should we make 'em white in order to stop discrimination ? So you tell me how Herr Hitler managed to sort out the jews ? Why didn’t he pick on christian political parties ? ``` What is the problem with saying jews are highly educated ? Asians overall are also much better in school. Saying "japs" are good in math is bad too ? In the "Why Jews hated" thread someone cites the fact that Jews in America are in high proportion in Ivy leagues. So the "stereotype" has some reason. Still not justification for anything. If jews are smarter than WASPs the better for them. ``` (I only know american and brazilian jews… so “everywhere” is wrong.) ``` As for Israel if you think I'm defending the holocaust you're plain silly... ``` ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/114 "2005-06-22T15:08:47Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > So you tell me how Herr Hitler managed to sort out the jews ? What does 60 years ago have to do with how Jews look now? Things have changed a bit since then… ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/115 "2005-06-22T15:29:27Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > What do you want me to say Finn ? How about apologize for your statement? You do reazlie that, no, not **everywhere** are Jews highly educated? That the slur that Jews are some effete intellectual community removed from “normal” people has caused the deaths of many a man and woman throughout the years, and that you repeating them as if they’re valid is vile? It’s not enough to say “oops, I guess that’s not true after all.” Ideally, you’d learn and stop saying things like that. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > That jews are just like regular fare christians… especially in Germany ? My relatives, the ones who were butchered by the Nazis? You couldn’t have told them from non-Jews. That’s why they were made to wear fucking yellow stars, because it **wasn’t** obvious. They didn’t lead overly religious lives. They weren’t wealthy. They were Germans who happened to be Jewish, and they were slaughtered for it. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > That the stereotypes are irrelevant to what happened in WWII ? Even if most don’t fit. Shit on a cracker, I am _not_ letting you weasle out of this again. You can’t claim that all your anti-semitic slurs are the result of quoting bigots, not again, not when it’s obvious that it isn’t true. You’ve met, by your own admission, only a few Jews and yet you see fit to make a statement as to what jews **everywhere** do? Yes yes, you retract it in this post, but why do you feel that you can make statements like that in the first place? And, on preview, as **Kid** points out, Jews 60 years ago are not Jews today. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Somehow they got picked on… why ? I’m curious to hear why you think that is. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > but they were branded. Some of the reasons were of their making… maybe… Maybe? Have you even _seen_ the [Nazi propaganda against the Jews?](http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ww2era.htm) If you think a single reason was ‘of their making’ you’ve got serious issues. [“The knowledge of the Jew must be brought to every attic and every corner of Greater Germany, the knowledge that the Jew was a world plague from the beginning, remained so for millennia, and will forever remain one. Each Jew individually, and Jewry as a whole, is without a home. Jewry undermines every people and every state that it infiltrates. It feeds as a parasite and a culture-killing worm in the host people. It grows and grows like weeds in the state, the community and the family and infests the blood of humanity everywhere.”](http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/esser.htm) Again, if I showed you pictures of my relatives who were butchered, you wouldn’t be able to see a difference between them and any other Germans. What exactly did they do to be branded? Or have christians, “maybe”, done something to be branded as snake handlers? :dubious: > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > but hardly justification for anything. Blacks look different… should we make 'em white in order to stop discrimination ? Again, what the fuck is this supposed to mean? You think you can tell a Jew just by looking at them? By hanging out with 'em for an evening? What exactly are you implying? Yes some Jews, the distinct minority, have identifying features. So? > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > So you tell me how Herr Hitler managed to sort out the jews ? Why didn’t he pick on christian political parties ? Herr Hitler, eh? ["Of course the obvious benefit of the badge to the Nazis was the visual labeling of the Jews. No longer would the rabble only be able to attack and persecute those Jews with stereotypical Jewish features or forms of dress, now all Jews and part Jews were open to the various Nazi actions. The badge made a distinction. One day there were just people on the street, and the next day, there were Jews and non-Jews. A common reaction was as Gertrud Scholtz-Klink’s stated in her answer to the question, “What did you think when one day in 1941 you saw so many of your fellow Berliners appear with yellow stars on their coats?” Her answer, "I don’t know how to say it. There were so many. I felt that my aesthetic sensibility was wounded."6 All of a sudden, stars were everywhere, just like Hitler had said they were. "]([http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/aa031298.htm](http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/aa031298.htm)) > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > ``` > What is the problem with saying jews are highly educated ? > > ``` Besides the fact that it’s untrue and leads to a view of the Jews as ‘the other?’ > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Asians overall are also much better in school. Saying “japs” are good in math is bad too ? Wow. Yes, that’d be bad. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > In the “Why Jews hated” thread someone cites the fact that Jews in America are in high proportion in Ivy leagues. So the “stereotype” has some reason. No quotes around steroetype, sorry. Need I remind you of what you said? You said that Jews **everywhere** are highly educated, not that there are a bunch in the Ivy League. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > Still not justification for anything. If jews are smarter than WASPs the better for them. You just don’t get it, do you? > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > (I only know american and brazilian jews… so “everywhere” is wrong.) Then why did you say that? Any particular reason? > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > ``` > As for Israel if you think I'm defending the holocaust you're plain silly... > > ``` Nope. The genocide I was refering to was not the German one, but the one that the Arabs of the time tried to initiate. Don’t make me drag out the Azzam Pasha quote. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/116 "2005-06-22T15:31:15Z")
Ya know what, fuck it. I don’t have the energy for this shit right now. I would ask that you quit making sweeping statements about Jews. Think before you post. But that’ll be all for now. We can argue some other day. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/117 "2005-06-22T19:26:11Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > What does 60 years ago have to do with how Jews look now? Things have changed a bit since then… They were using my quotes from other threads where we discussed right wing persecution of jews. Jews have changed for sure… but discrimination hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/118 "2005-06-22T20:05:55Z")
Sorry if you’ve taken it personally Finn… but even the smilies have a jew -\> ;j Jews suffered and died in the millions… so did Soviets, Gypsies and all sorts of minorities. I visited a concentration camp in Germany. I’m well aware of what happened… but I won’t due to political sensitivity pretend that everyone is equal and stuff happens only due to evil people. Or that the evils of the past justify any current actions. We know our history and we know how things ended happening. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/119 "2005-06-22T20:17:15Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > They were using my quotes from other threads where we discussed right wing persecution of jews. Jews have changed for sure… but discrimination hasn’t. Eh? You still insist that they stick out. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > wasn’t offending jews in case you didn’t notice… but that jews do stick out See, **do** stick out, not **did** stick out. Yer talking about today. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048/120 "2005-06-22T21:16:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Jews suffered and died in the millions… so did Soviets, Gypsies and all sorts of minorities. Soviets are a minority? Mebbe in the Americas þ, I suppose. But then there weren’t millions of them killed on those continents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-american-talibans/309048.md?page=7)