# The Americans Season 3 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2015, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097 "2015-01-28T09:03:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/381 "2015-03-05T17:59:50Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > It seems obvious in retrospect that if Elizabeth wants to get Paige in on their true identities, she should start with a smaller lie… Paige might well thrive doing odd tradecraft-y things for what she believes is liberal-protesty-reasons, even if she would balk at learning the REAL truth. > > I love the scenes in this show where the best lie is a lie that is also the truth… Philip opening up to Kimmy about the son he’s never met. Such clever writing. I just thought it was a glaring mistake for E to include P in the lie she told Paige. She told Paige, “Your parents were real serious activists before you were born.” (or words to that effect). By including Phillip in that lie, Paige will see nothing wrong in asking Phillip about it. It would have been so much easier to tell Paige, “I was a very serious activist around the time your dad and I were dating and planning to marry. But if he ever found out I was an activist, I think he would probably leave me. Please don’t ever say anything to him about that. OK, dear?” In that way, if Paige ever asks P about E’s activities, E can deny them and then tell Paige that she had to lie because P never knew about those activities. Seems to me that E is taking a huge risk by telling Paige about her activities without first getting P to agree and to also participate. But the show runners are far more experienced that am I and they undoubtedly have some kind of plan in mind. Still, it would make me very much afraid that at some point, Paige will go to P and ask him about his “non-existant” activism in the days when he was dating Elizabeth. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/382 "2015-03-05T18:36:08Z")
I also think it a mistake for Elizabeth to talk about Gregory in such specific terms when he was the subject of a police hunt a couple of years earlier. And, just wondering, if a standard part of rolling up an operation is tying off “loose ends”. Remember the Sandinista agent that Elizabeth directed to kill the congressional aide? I wonder if Phillip, at some point, will be ordered to kill Kimmy to protect his cover. I don’t think he’d go for that. Are Mrs. Beeman and Martha kind of the Chekov and Sulu of this show? It seems that when you see one, you don’t see the other. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/383 "2015-03-05T19:06:15Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Are Mrs. Beeman and Martha kind of the Chekov and Sulu of this show? It seems that when you see one, you don’t see the other. What reason would they have to be in the same scene? 😕 They haven’t followed up on that offhand remark that Martha won’t be seeing classified materials on the cart any more, have they? I wonder if the FBI has finally twigged to what she’s been doing. In any event, I don’t think she’s long for this world. Kimmy, I think, is going to be slipped some bad weed down the line, too. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/384 "2015-03-05T19:10:15Z")
> [@twuest](#): > > Unless of course Elizabeth kills him first. Like all good Communists, Elizabeth is a sociopath. I’ve been waiting for this to happen for a while now. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/385 "2015-03-05T19:17:33Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I just thought it was a glaring mistake for E to include P in the lie she told Paige. She told Paige, “Your parents were real serious activists before you were born.” (or words to that effect). > > By including Phillip in that lie, Paige will see nothing wrong in asking Phillip about it. It would have been so much easier to tell Paige, “I was a very serious activist around the time your dad and I were dating and planning to marry. But if he ever found out I was an activist, I think he would probably leave me. Please don’t ever say anything to him about that. OK, dear?” > > In that way, if Paige ever asks P about E’s activities, E can deny them and then tell Paige that she had to lie because P never knew about those activities. > > Seems to me that E is taking a huge risk by telling Paige about her activities without first getting P to agree and to also participate. > > But the show runners are far more experienced that am I and they undoubtedly have some kind of plan in mind. Still, it would make me very much afraid that at some point, Paige will go to P and ask him about his “non-existant” activism in the days when he was dating Elizabeth. Elizabeth is right here. Paige will eventually find out, either because the parents are caught or they are recalled. Better she knows, so they can control her reaction. OTH, wrt to the Aparthied sub plot, it’s great to see the USSR on the right side of history for a change. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/386 "2015-03-05T19:25:42Z")
Re: the Chekov/Sulu comparison, I didn’t mean in the same scene, I meant in the whole episode. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/387 "2015-03-05T19:26:57Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > OTH, wrt to the Aparthied sub plot, it’s great to see the USSR on the right side of history for a change. Yeah, they got great mileage out of this in the West. The average Russian is, however, racist in ways that would shock most Americans or Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![twuest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@twuest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twuest)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/388 "2015-03-05T20:46:35Z")
Lots of interesting comments here. It seems that the show is about to come to a crossroads. I was fascinated by the preview snippet for next week when Paige starts to want some answers. How are P and E going to react when Paige demands the truth? Bigger picture, fast forward to a fourth—and possible final season if the ratings don’t improve—the writers can create the ultimate showdown: P clearly wants to protect Paige, E wants to recruit her. I don’t believe her one iota when E claims she’s OK with Paige making “her own choices”. That’s bull. E is hellbent on bringing Paige into the fold, regardless of the consequences. She will do whatever she has to to get it done. Plus, does anyone believe Paige will be allowed to say “no?” Eventually, P has enough, and tries somehow to protect Paige. The Center, seeing what’s going on, has enough of Phillip, and decides on the final test of E’s loyalty: Kill Phillip. Could that be where this might be going? I don’t think it’s out of the question. Remember, we’ve had a previous test of Elizabeth’s loyalties…she’s already ratted out Philip once. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/389 "2015-03-05T21:06:01Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > \ > Are Mrs. Beeman and Martha kind of the Chekov and Sulu of this show? It seems that when you see one, you don’t see the other. I got a good laugh from that. But what is the point of having Mrs. Beeman on the show? She just seems to flit in and out of the picture and it’s really not right because she is a very beautiful and sexy lady. Just ask Henry. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/390 "2015-03-05T21:10:31Z")
> [@twuest](#): > > \ > Eventually, P has enough, and tries somehow to protect Paige. The Center, seeing what’s going on, has enough of Phillip, and decides on the final test of E’s loyalty: Kill Phillip. > > Could that be where this might be going? I don’t think it’s out of the question. Remember, we’ve had a previous test of Elizabeth’s loyalties…she’s already ratted out Philip once. If that does happen, I would think it would have to happen in the final episode of the final season. After all, Matthew Rhys has been listed as the star of the show in every episode. Although it certainly is possible, I would be incredibly shocked if they just cut him out of the show. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/391 "2015-03-05T21:13:49Z")
If the plot of the show does unravel as above, I would very much prefer to see Phillip take some big bucks from the US govt to defect and then take Paige (and maybe Henry too) with him to Montana and join Frank Zappa on his farm. Remember Frank Zappa’s song about moving to Montana and become a farmer of dental floss? I would strongly prefer to see Phillip and Paige foil any attempt by the Center to have them killed and turn that around and defect. It would serve the Center right. (at least IMHO). Here is a link to that: > **[Montana (Frank Zappa song)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_%28Frank_Zappa_song%29)** > > "Montana" is a song composed by Frank Zappa for his 1973 LP Over-Nite Sensation. The last track on the album is one of Zappa's most famous and renowned compositions.\[by whom?\] It features backing vocals by Tina Turner and the Ikettes throughout the entire track, notably on the middle and ending sections. > The single version of this track was released as the B-side of "I'm the Slime" in 1973. Both songs are different mixes and edits than the album versions. The single version of "Montana" later ap... ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/392 "2015-03-05T22:13:13Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I just thought it was a glaring mistake for E to include P in the lie she told Paige. She told Paige, “Your parents were real serious activists before you were born.” (or words to that effect). > > By including Phillip in that lie, Paige will see nothing wrong in asking Phillip about it. It would have been so much easier to tell Paige, “I was a very serious activist around the time your dad and I were dating and planning to marry. But if he ever found out I was an activist, I think he would probably leave me. Please don’t ever say anything to him about that. OK, dear?” If anything, E should tell Paige “your dad wants to put this all behind us… he wouldn’t want to bring you into this”, which is much closer to the truth, but doesn’t then result in a “hey, why did you lie about Dad” moment when Paige finds out that Philip is also in on the secret. On another note, I wish people would use spoiler boxes if they’re going to discuss anything from the “next week on…”. Lots of people (such as me) don’t watch them… largely because they’re often totally misleading. They’re typically assembled by the studio’s publicity department, not anyone actually directly invested in the show. ---
**Author:** ![twuest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@twuest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twuest)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/393 "2015-03-05T22:37:47Z")
Charlie, I think you could make that a running theme for the last half of any final season…I think they could string it out for six or seven episodes. I think it would be interesting to make that the final plot line of the series. You could preview it with a meeting between Gabriel and Elizabeth, and Gabriel lays down the law…“you have to choose…Phillip or the mission, and by the way, you don’t have a choice.” After all, if they insist on Phillip sleeping with a 15 year old, I wouldn’t think anything is off the table. I am with you on the final outcome as well. Phillip wanted to take the $3 million in the series premiere, so they could come back to that quite nicely as the series draws to a close. As for Liz, capture would be fine with me. I think she would rather die than to serve time in a prison in the country she hates, so I would prefer capture, trial and imprisonment for her final fate. I wasn’t trying to spoil anything for future episodes. The segment I mentioned about Paige was maybe four seconds long, tops. Four seconds out of about fifty odd minutes of show. If it gave anything away, I wouldn’t think they wouldn’t put it in, regardless of who is responsible for putting the next week promos together…so I thought it would be fair game to reference. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/394 "2015-03-05T23:22:51Z")
> [@twuest](#): > > Charlie, I think you could make that a running theme for the last half of any final season…I think they could string it out for six or seven episodes. I think it would be interesting to make that the final plot line of the series. You could preview it with a meeting between Gabriel and Elizabeth, and Gabriel lays down the law…“you have to choose…Phillip or the mission, and by the way, you don’t have a choice.” After all, if they insist on Phillip sleeping with a 15 year old, I wouldn’t think anything is off the table. > > I am with you on the final outcome as well. Phillip wanted to take the $3 million in the series premiere, so they could come back to that quite nicely as the series draws to a close. As for Liz, capture would be fine with me. I think she would rather die than to serve time in a prison in the country she hates, so I would prefer capture, trial and imprisonment for her final fate. > > I wasn’t trying to spoil anything for future episodes. The segment I mentioned about Paige was maybe four seconds long, tops. Four seconds out of about fifty odd minutes of show. If it gave anything away, I wouldn’t think they wouldn’t put it in, regardless of who is responsible for putting the next week promos together…so I thought it would be fair game to reference. If it means anything to you, I never thought for a second that you were spoiling anything or giving anything away. And I have no problem telling you that you are one of my most favorite contributors to this thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/395 "2015-03-05T23:46:24Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > It seems obvious in retrospect that if Elizabeth wants to get Paige in on their true identities, she should start with a smaller lie… Paige might well thrive doing odd tradecraft-y things for what she believes is liberal-protesty-reasons, even if she would balk at learning the REAL truth. It wasn’t a lie, though. They were involved in the civil rights movement. And while there, they did do things that were slightly less than legal. The reason behind their involvement was to destabilize and discredit the US government and not to promote civil rights (or not just to promote civil rights, if you want to give them some credit.) And Elizabeth was doing it for what she saw as the greater good. Just like Philip with Kimmy later, it was a lie that was the truth. ---
**Author:** ![twuest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@twuest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twuest)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/396 "2015-03-06T00:02:38Z")
\*]I wasn’t trying to spoil anything for future episodes. The segment I mentioned about Paige was maybe four seconds long, tops. Four seconds out of about fifty odd minutes of show. If it gave anything away, I wouldn’t think they wouldn’t put it in, regardless of who is responsible for putting the next week promos together…so I thought it would be fair game to reference. [/QUOTE] * * * That was a reference to Max’s comment earlier…wasn’t directed at you. Thanks again for the kind words as well Charlie. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/397 "2015-03-06T00:36:41Z")
> [@twuest](#): > > If it gave anything away, I wouldn’t think they wouldn’t put it in, regardless of who is responsible for putting the next week promos together…so I thought it would be fair game to reference. Well, this is a debate that has been had to death in threads about many many different TV shows. There’s no official policy for **The Americans** threads but there are a number of people who prefer not to see any reference to the “next week on”. Fortunately, the board provides spoiler boxes in which you can put any such discussion, if you are willing to respect the wishes of some (but not all) participants of these threads. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/398 "2015-03-06T00:38:03Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > It wasn’t a lie, though. They were involved in the civil rights movement. And while there, they did do things that were slightly less than legal. The reason behind their involvement was to destabilize and discredit the US government and not to promote civil rights (or not just to promote civil rights, if you want to give them some credit.) And Elizabeth was doing it for what she saw as the greater good. Just like Philip with Kimmy later, it was a lie that was the truth. Right, exactly. If Elizabeth had sat Paige down and said “hey, you know how you’ve spent your entire life thinking that the USA is the greatest country in the world, and the USSR is evil, and you’re a patriotic American? Well, funny story…” it would not have gone well. Instead she told some small truths surrounded by greater lies of omission and misleading contexts… but it gets her foot in the door so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/399 "2015-03-06T00:38:24Z")
Paige isn’t going to join them, at least no willingly and not for long. Storytelling is about character, and Paige is not a sociopath who hates America. She is a well adjusted teenage girl, better adjusted and less vulnerable than Kimmy. And Paige may either be kidnapped to the fatherland or killed as a result of her refusal to play along. Her best bet is to run to Beeman. Beeman is about as hapless as Alan Harper. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097/400 "2015-03-06T00:44:05Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Paige isn’t going to join them, at least no willingly and not for long. Storytelling is about character, and Paige is not a sociopath who hates America. She is a well adjusted teenage girl, better adjusted and less vulnerable than Kimmy. And Paige may either be kidnapped to the fatherland or killed as a result of her refusal to play along. Her best bet is to run to Beeman. Beeman is about as hapless as Alan Harper. Sure, but might Paige be someone who will sometimes go do dead drops or follow people or eventually wear funny wigs and infiltrate groups, because she is so excited to find out that her parents are (she believes) committed patriotic activist liberals who are helping find against the evils of the military industrial complex, or some such thing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-3/711097.md?page=21)