# The Americans Season 4 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496 "2016-01-28T15:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/221 "2016-05-03T08:09:29Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Off the top of my head, she placed a bug in her boss’ office (she thought she was doing it for the government, but that’d be hard to prove); she made photocopies of the schedule for the detail of FBI agents assigned with following people so that the KGB would know when it’s safe to meet with agents; and she knows that Philip murdered the IT guy and made it look like a suicide to cover her crimes (she found out after the fact, but she never reported it); and I’m sure she lied to federal agents investigating all of the above. Charging someone for espionage when they thought they were working for the US Gov - it’s a bit harsh 😃 Photocopying a surveillance roster … okay. And not reporting a crime, if that’s a crime. Tbh, I’m sure there’s stuff. But it’s not exactly Aldrich Ames. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/222 "2016-05-03T13:06:17Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > I was thinking the teenaged girl that Philip was ‘seducing’ (working, really) would be a way to work Paige into the family business - “Honey, hang out with her, get to know her, become her confidante, and then…STAB HER IN THE BACK!” > > … > > Loved the grunt dismissal when they dropped off the “Jesuit Priest” – “Do you think he’s _really_ could be a priest??” “Ehh…who knows?” How’s this? Kimmy took Phillip’s prayer session so seriously, that she joins pastor Tim’s church where Paige befriends her, and invites her home for dinner. Hijinks (and bloodshed) ensue! 😃 I’ve been noticing a large number of cross-pollination of supporting actors across the relatively few shows my wife and I watch regularly. William - the bio-spy - was a recurring character on The Good Wife. Yesterday we saw the priest in a small role on Elementary. Weird when you notice things like that. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/223 "2016-05-03T13:09:00Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > Well, I can’t say that I’ve seen much change in Elizabeth’s overall position. I mean, twice in this episode she reminds Philip that they may have to kill Martha, so I don’t think she’s having any trouble justifying her treatment. She certainly doesn’t show any remorse for gut punching her; in fact, I think she enjoyed it, considering her lingering jealousy of Philip’s relationship with Martha. We don’t know what the deal is yet with the Korean lady, right? So there’s nothing there yet. > > As for Paige, Elizabeth is still lying to her about not hurting people and how they do only good things. Basically, she’s been treating her more like an asset than a daughter. There hasn’t been much to make me think Elizabeth isn’t just fine with that arrangement. I don’t see it that way. Elizabeth was the one who put the brakes on their plan to kill Pastor Tim, because she knew Paige would never forgive them. I don’t think Elizabeth enjoyed gut-punching Martha; I think she feels quite sorry for Martha and for Philip - she expressed as much in the scene where she told Philip she’d understand if he wanted to go back to Russia with her. Also, Elizabeth appears to genuinely like her Korean friend. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/224 "2016-05-03T19:28:47Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > I don’t see it that way. Elizabeth was the one who put the brakes on their plan to kill Pastor Tim, because she knew Paige would never forgive them. I don’t think Elizabeth enjoyed gut-punching Martha; I think she feels quite sorry for Martha and for Philip - she expressed as much in the scene where she told Philip she’d understand if he wanted to go back to Russia with her. Also, Elizabeth appears to genuinely like her Korean friend. Yeah, but it’s not like there was some sort of conflict between Elizabeth and the Center over that decision. From the start, the Center was just following their lead, they weren’t forcing anything upon her. They ostensibly have no problem with her decision to keep Pastor Tim alive and the Jennings working him. Now perhaps this storyline is laying the groundwork for something bigger in the future- like the Center decides by itself to kill Pastor Tim without informing the Jennings, causing Paige to go nuts naturally assuming her parents did it. If something like that happened, then maybe we’d finally see some genuine conflict in Elizabeth. She didn’t seem sorry for Martha and Philip in the scene you mention, she seemed sorry for herself because she honestly doesn’t know where Philip wants to be. She’s worried that Philip might be more into his fake relationship with Martha than his fake relationship with herself. Also, in that very scene, she brings up the fact that they will have to kill Martha if she runs again. I’m not seeing a lot of sympathy for Team Martha there. Elizabeth appears to genuinely like her Korean friend, but she also appears to genuinely like all the assets she approaches as a friend. That’s what they do. And again, we don’t yet know where that storyline is going so we can’t draw many conclusions from it. Perhaps their friendship is genuine and outside her work, or perhaps she is a North Korean spy known to Elizabeth, or perhaps Elizabeth is working her and their genuine friendship is a setup so it will have more dramatic impact when Elizabeth eventually kills her. So the problem is their relationship isn’t evidence of anything until we know what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/225 "2016-05-03T19:50:57Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > Yeah, but it’s not like there was some sort of conflict between Elizabeth and the Center over that decision. From the start, the Center was just following their lead, they weren’t forcing anything upon her. They ostensibly have no problem with her decision to keep Pastor Tim alive and the Jennings working him. > > Now perhaps this storyline is laying the groundwork for something bigger in the future- like the Center decides by itself to kill Pastor Tim without informing the Jennings, causing Paige to go nuts naturally assuming her parents did it. If something like that happened, then maybe we’d finally see some genuine conflict in Elizabeth. > > She didn’t seem sorry for Martha and Philip in the scene you mention, she seemed sorry for herself because she honestly doesn’t know where Philip wants to be. She’s worried that Philip might be more into his fake relationship with Martha than his fake relationship with herself. Also, in that very scene, she brings up the fact that they will have to kill Martha if she runs again. I’m not seeing a lot of sympathy for Team Martha there. > > Elizabeth appears to genuinely like her Korean friend, but she also appears to genuinely like all the assets she approaches as a friend. That’s what they do. And again, we don’t yet know where that storyline is going so we can’t draw many conclusions from it. Perhaps their friendship is genuine and outside her work, or perhaps she is a North Korean spy known to Elizabeth, or perhaps Elizabeth is working her and their genuine friendship is a setup so it will have more dramatic impact when Elizabeth eventually kills her. So the problem is their relationship isn’t evidence of anything until we know what’s going on. Well, yeah. That’s why I said it was just a hunch until we see more of this season. And I completely disagree that Elizabeth feels no sympathy for Martha. Elizabeth could have easily killed her in the scene where Martha starts yelling. But she didn’t. You can argue that it was more for Philip’s sake, but I don’t believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/226 "2016-05-03T19:51:38Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > Elizabeth appears to genuinely like her Korean friend, but she also appears to genuinely like all the assets she approaches as a friend. That’s what they do. And again, we don’t yet know where that storyline is going so we can’t draw many conclusions from it. Perhaps their friendship is genuine and outside her work, or perhaps she is a North Korean spy known to Elizabeth, or perhaps Elizabeth is working her and their genuine friendship is a setup so it will have more dramatic impact when Elizabeth eventually kills her. So the problem is their relationship isn’t evidence of anything until we know what’s going on. We can draw some conclusions since we get to see the effect of hanging out with her Korean friend afterwards when she’s alone and unguarded. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/227 "2016-05-03T20:01:01Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Charging someone for espionage when they thought they were working for the US Gov - it’s a bit harsh 😃 > > Photocopying a surveillance roster … okay. And not reporting a crime, if that’s a crime. > > Tbh, I’m sure there’s stuff. But it’s not exactly Aldrich Ames. She’s straight up an accessory to murder after the fact for the IT guy and she planted a bug in FBI headquarters, the fact that she thought Clark worked for the FBI doesn’t make her innocent, just stupid and prison is full of morons. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/228 "2016-05-03T21:39:54Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > Well, yeah. That’s why I said it was just a hunch until we see more of this season. And I completely disagree that Elizabeth feels no sympathy for Martha. Elizabeth could have easily killed her in the scene where Martha starts yelling. But she didn’t. You can argue that it was more for Philip’s sake, but I don’t believe that. Elizabeth feels duty, not sympathy. Martha has helped the cause and now Elizabeth is obligated to exfiltrate her or kill her if she runs again, whichever the circumstances demand. There is no emotional connection between them. If she has so much sympathy, why is she constantly reminding Philip that they may have to kill her? I don’t begrudge you your hunches, I just don’t see any evidence that would lead you in that direction is all. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/229 "2016-05-03T21:41:55Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > We can draw some conclusions since we get to see the effect of hanging out with her Korean friend afterwards when she’s alone and unguarded. I can’t say I recall those scenes offhand. Can you point to some specific examples? What happens in them? ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/230 "2016-05-03T22:34:41Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > I found the title of next week’s episode very interesting in regards to Martha’s story: “The Magic of David Copperfield V: The Statue of Liberty Disappears.” > > David Copperfield performed this illusion in front of a live television audience on April 8, 1983. A helicopter searching, radar - with a disappearing dot, requiem in d minor, maybe even a soviet agent wearing a leather jacket being the “magician” I can totally buy it. Maybe even a juxtaposition of the kids watching on TV while the real magic takes place somewhere else ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/231 "2016-05-04T01:54:53Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > I can’t say I recall those scenes offhand. Can you point to some specific examples? What happens in them? She has a conversation with Clark where she talks about how her latest assignment is different and then, later, when she sees Reagan on TV, she’s amused instead of angry. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/232 "2016-05-04T03:59:21Z")
Plus she has a nice moment with Paige cooking up that Korean dish. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/233 "2016-05-04T04:19:45Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > She has a conversation with Clark where she talks about how her latest assignment is different and then, later, when she sees Reagan on TV, she’s amused instead of angry. Thanks for pointing it out, but I don’t understand- when she sees Reagan on TV, the whole family is with her so those aren’t examples of her being alone and unguarded. Are there others where she is? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/234 "2016-05-04T09:00:33Z")
I don’t understand the phrase “alone and unguarded”. Unguarded makes sense to me. She was curiously unguarded in the way she made fun of Reagan’s cheeks. I was also surprised when she cooked Korean food for her family. Outside of that dynamic, that time she put on a fake Russian accent talking with Paige at the bowling alley was also new. I still think the writers will shock us - probably in the graphic way she seduces her friends husband. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/235 "2016-05-04T23:32:26Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I don’t understand the phrase “alone and unguarded”. Unguarded makes sense to me. I suspect Shalmanese meant when Elizabeth is alone, and therefore in an unguarded state. Like when she is alone, she can put her hair down. It’s those moments when we can usually get an unbiased insight to the character. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/236 "2016-05-04T23:46:09Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yes, and it’s worth remembering that this show is not set in a parallel-universe 1980s–the showrunners have made an effort to keep it tied to actual historical events. And we know that the Soviets didn’t deploy any biological weapon of the type William described (as being in the rat’s tissues). Biological warfare research is still useful for counter-agents. They could develop a vaccine if they kept current on our potential weaponization. Seems like perfectly legit spy stuff. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/237 "2016-05-05T04:42:50Z")
Weighing in on tonight’s episode. Some **great** acting by Keri Russell at the EST seminar. As she sat and listened, without saying a word. you could see, at the same time, how the speaker’s words were hitting home with her and how she was evaluating EST’s potential to undermine Phillip’s loyalty/resolve. And we have a seven-month time jump. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/238 "2016-05-05T07:33:38Z")
I keep getting these little moments - like David Bowie (Under Pressure was right on point but … my gut says they did that as a tribute. There was no need for a mini montage). Ditto Copperfield talking about immigrants. They’re feeding back the now, to the past. Not a big deal but something else to watch for. All my life I’ve never understood the appeal of soaps and all that emotional drama. And then Philip says ‘You want to talk about Gregory … NOW’. What a scene. WHAT a scene. A big episode I thought. Huge changes for so many characters, basically all of them. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/239 "2016-05-05T13:26:32Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Weighing in on tonight’s episode. Some **great** acting by Keri Russell at the EST seminar. As she sat and listened, without saying a word. you could see, at the same time, how the speaker’s words were hitting home with her and how she was evaluating EST’s potential to undermine Phillip’s loyalty/resolve. > > And we have a seven-month time jump. I like that she saw through EST’s BS to recognize that they are just trying to sell you a bunch of crap. Elizabeth has always sees America cynically, but not necessarily inaccurately. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/240 "2016-05-05T15:10:30Z")
So let’s add it up. Nina gone, Martha gone, John-boy gone. Wonder if budget cuts factor in. While Madmonk28 is correct in how Elizabeth views EST, there is also the fact that both EST and Communism both have rather cultish aspects and Elizabeth could be looking at it as a competing philosophy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496.md?page=13)