# The Americans Season 4 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496 "2016-01-28T15:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/401 "2016-05-22T16:49:30Z")
I think Gaas was correct to percieve it as a threat. Three big guys barge into your room, what would you think? One guy could have met Gaad it, and knocked. No, the threat was there. Unless the local KGB are totally incompetent. That’s a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/402 "2016-05-23T01:41:48Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I’m a bit surprised that everyone is so intrigued by the proposal for Gad. I think far and away the most likely explanation is that the Soviets knew Gad had been kicked upstairs, thought that he might be bitter and willing to be recruited, and figured they’d have someone approach him. If he turned them down, then nothing lost, but might as well take a 1 in 100 shot of gaining a massive asset. > > And somehow the instructions from Moscow got a bit garbled and the guys “approaching” him, not necessarily the KGB’s best and brightest, screwed up the approach. > Sure it might be just about anything else, but that fits the facts way too well for me not to assume that it’s the case until we find out otherwise. Do we know that Gaad was kicked upstairs? It seems more like he was forced out. And even if he’s bitter at the FBI but still there with access to anything remotely important, why would he want to work for the KGB? He knows that it was the KGB that totally ruined his career by bugging his office, turning his secretary and murdering his computer guy. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/403 "2016-05-23T02:10:21Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > Do we know that Gaad was kicked upstairs? It seems more like he was forced out. And even if he’s bitter at the FBI but still there with access to anything remotely important, why would he want to work for the KGB? He knows that it was the KGB that totally ruined his career by bugging his office, turning his secretary and murdering his computer guy. I’m certain that he was fired, not kicked upstairs. The KGB took a long shot chance that he was pissed off enough about his treatment by the FBI that he would turn on them. It was worth a try, at least on paper. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/404 "2016-05-23T04:04:53Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I’m certain that he was fired, not kicked upstairs. > > The KGB took a long shot chance that he was pissed off enough about his treatment by the FBI that he would turn on them. It was worth a try, at least on paper. That seems like much more than a long shot, though. The KGB pretty much pantsed him in front of the whole schoolyard; he knows it and they know it, so he would never work for them based on that. Even if the KGB doesn’t know that he’s not pissed, a long shot in that situation doesn’t feel remotely realistic. I mean, unless it was standard operating procedure to try to recruit every former FBI agent. Obviously they approached him for something, but I don’t think it can be to be an agent, which is what the poster I was responding to seemed to be implying, and as you say, he was basically fired, so he has nothing fresh to offer them. But then again, Arkady seemed to think it was a stupid move, so maybe… ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/405 "2016-05-23T04:39:29Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > That seems like much more than a long shot, though. The KGB pretty much pantsed him in front of the whole schoolyard; he knows it and they know it, so he would never work for them based on that. Even if the KGB doesn’t know that he’s not pissed, a long shot in that situation doesn’t feel remotely realistic. I mean, unless it was standard operating procedure to try to recruit every former FBI agent. > > Obviously they approached him for something, but I don’t think it can be to be an agent, which is what the poster I was responding to seemed to be implying, and as you say, he was basically fired, so he has nothing fresh to offer them. > > But then again, Arkady seemed to think it was a stupid move, so maybe… Right. Probably not an active agent, but more to tell then what he knows. A lot of what he knew at the time of his death was still relevant. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/406 "2016-05-23T14:20:38Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > That seems like much more than a long shot, though. The KGB pretty much pantsed him in front of the whole schoolyard; he knows it and they know it, so he would never work for them based on that. Even if the KGB doesn’t know that he’s not pissed, a long shot in that situation doesn’t feel remotely realistic. I mean, unless it was standard operating procedure to try to recruit every former FBI agent. > > Obviously they approached him for something, but I don’t think it can be to be an agent, which is what the poster I was responding to seemed to be implying, and as you say, he was basically fired, so he has nothing fresh to offer them. > > But then again, Arkady seemed to think it was a stupid move, so maybe… I thought that maybe they were hoping to get him to deliver a back door message to the US government, maybe arrange a swap of prisoners; or initiate under the table discussions about a treaty topic. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/407 "2016-05-23T17:39:48Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > That seems like much more than a long shot, though. But that must be what recruiting agents is like. We’ve seen a lot of time with Phillip and Elizabeth dealing with Martha and various other people they’ve recruited and more-or-less-turned over the years. But there must be zillions of times when they make an initial approach to someone and then back off. There’s no reason for the KGB _not_ to give a shot to recruiting Gaad. So it’s a one percent long shot. So what? The possible benefits are WAY too huge to not give it a shot. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/408 "2016-05-23T20:08:17Z")
Exactly. You never know if someone might have a secret interest in gambling, etc. It’s a shot to nothing. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/409 "2016-05-23T20:33:08Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > But that must be what recruiting agents is like. We’ve seen a lot of time with Phillip and Elizabeth dealing with Martha and various other people they’ve recruited and more-or-less-turned over the years. But there must be zillions of times when they make an initial approach to someone and then back off. And you think the KGB could trust any information he gives them? Trust a man whom they’ve just totally, utterly, completely embarrassed in front of his entire department? Trust the former head of FBI counter intelligence, the man whose job it was to fuck up KGB operations? Does it not seem unreasonable to you that the KGB would expect he would just be a double agent and, in fact, actually be spying on them? The KGB goes after people who have weaknesses that can be exploited, the naive or the true believers. Which one of those is Gaad? > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > There’s no reason for the KGB _not_ to give a shot to recruiting Gaad. So it’s a one percent long shot. So what? The possible benefits are WAY too huge to not give it a shot. So it’s your contention then that every single president, director of the FBI, CIA, NSA has been approached? Because the possible benefits are WAY to huge to not give it a shot? Ok. You know what? You’re right. The KGB should try to recruit Gaad. What could possibly go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/410 "2016-05-23T20:36:29Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Exactly. You never know if someone might have a secret interest in gambling, etc. It’s a shot to nothing. They presumedly already had a file on someone as high up as Gaad and if they had actionable information on him, would have used it back when he was the active director of counter intelligence and not someone seven months retired. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/411 "2016-05-23T21:54:00Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > The KGB goes after people who have weaknesses that can be exploited, the naive or the true believers. Which one of those is Gaad? Gaad is a possibly **disgruntled** former FBI agent. That’s the key here. The KGB knows he was fired. If there’s any possibility that Gaad harbors ill will towards the FBI, why not at least try to exploit that? ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/412 "2016-05-24T00:48:29Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > Gaad is a possibly **disgruntled** former FBI agent. That’s the key here. The KGB knows he was fired. If there’s any possibility that Gaad harbors ill will towards the FBI, why not at least try to exploit that? 7 months after the fact? When he has practically nothing to offer them? And considering that if he’s disgruntled at the FBI, just imagine how much more disgruntled he is with KGB for putting him in that position in the first place? And I think we saw the answer to “why not.” Things can go wrong the hard way in that business. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/413 "2016-05-24T09:24:16Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Agreed completely, except even further: I don’t think the instructions were garbled, and I don’t think the soviet agents did anything particularly wrong in that scene. Gaad just freaked the fuck out. He ran himself through a plate glass window…whaddya gonna do? I don’t think there is any reason not to approach him. There’s no risk of his being a double agent, because the whole thing would be about his selling information, not going to do anything for them. But I do find it curious how everyone (including professional reviewers, podcasters, etc.) describes Gaad’s deadly mishap this way: that he “ran himself through” a door/window, or that he “stumbled” into it. This is clearly wrong. If you still have the episode on DVR or streaming access to it, look again: the KGB agent tackled him and plowed him through the door, landing on top of him to add, well, severe injury to injury. Not that this was the intent, of course: but it was the Russian’s manhandling of him that was to blame. And this also may give us reason to be skeptical that they were only there to talk. Why tackle him (or try to grab him, and trip, whatever) if he was free to go? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/414 "2016-05-24T14:42:03Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > 7 months after the fact? When he has practically nothing to offer them? He has a treasure trove of information about procedures and capabilities. There’s plenty of valuable information that does not expire in 7 months. > [@Slackerinc](#): > > Why tackle him (or try to grab him, and trip, whatever) if he was free to go? Because it was a fuckup. The KGB guy in charge didn’t properly brief his goons on what was going on, or they were too used to using force, or any number such explanations. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/415 "2016-05-24T18:45:18Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > And I think we saw the answer to “why not.” Things can go wrong the hard way in that business. Think of it from the KGB’s point of view. I agree that this was a total fuckup, the worst possible result, but how does it hurt the KGB at all? They’ve lost nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/416 "2016-05-24T19:01:19Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > … but how does it hurt the KGB at all? They’ve lost nothing. It hurts them because if someone like Stan thinks that the KGB murdered Gaad (possibly in retribution), then someone like Oleg or Arkady might end up in a landfill somewhere. You don’t start straight out murdering the opposition unless you want some of the same back at you. The Feds don’t know about P&E, but they do know all the unofficial official spies, who are vulnerable because of their covers. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/417 "2016-05-24T20:10:29Z")
Avoiding the spoilers, I just started the binge watch of this. I am at episode 3 season 1. I will catch up to you guys at the beginning of next season ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/418 "2016-05-24T20:35:33Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > He has a treasure trove of information about procedures and capabilities. There’s plenty of valuable information that does not expire in 7 months. > Because it was a fuckup. The KGB guy in charge didn’t properly brief his goons on what was going on, or they were too used to using force, or any number such explanations. Agree on the first point. On the second, you may be right–but then why did the guy in charge not seem to be angry at the goon for being unnecessarily physical? I would have expected something like “you didn’t need to tackle him, we were just talking”, something like that. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/419 "2016-05-24T22:44:43Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Think of it from the KGB’s point of view. I agree that this was a total fuckup, the worst possible result, but how does it hurt the KGB at all? They’ve lost nothing. The former director of FBI counter intelligence is now dead thanks to the KGB. Even if the FBI doesn’t don’t know that, they know that. Stan has already killed for revenge. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496/420 "2016-05-24T23:00:52Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > He has a treasure trove of information about procedures and capabilities. There’s plenty of valuable information that does not expire in 7 months. Whatever procedures Gaad had in place have probably already been changed by the munchkin. Seven month old intel is stale intel and is only getting staler. I guess they should have approached him back when he had a job, because, you know, why not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-4/744496.md?page=22)