# The Americans; season 5 (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255 "2017-03-03T01:15:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/181 "2017-04-12T20:09:45Z")
Just Asking Questions wrote: “I’m idealistic in my own way, so I can’t believe that someone like Elizabeth, who has spent upwards of twenty years living in the US, seeing how it works, can still believe that the Soviet system is better.” Elizabeth would undoubtedly say that the life that she’s “lived” as an ersatz American is not universally shared by all in this country. She has taken Paige on a tour of some of the worse parts of DC. Also, ideologues often allow belief to blind them to the contradictions of reality. And not just among KGB operatives. We witness that effect here on a daily basis. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/182 "2017-04-12T23:19:35Z")
Also, it seemed to me at the psychologist’s (psychiatrist’s) office, Elizabeth basically told Paige’s version of the mugging story. From Paige’s POV, she was threatened by two homeless guys, there was a knife, she was scared that they would do something horrible to her, and help came out of an unexpected corner (Paige had no idea her mother could/would do that). Most importantly, Paige is still deeply affected by what happened (sleeping in the closet) and she kind of does want things to back to the way they were. Elizabeth, herself, is over the mugging. I wonder if Elizabeth knows that’s the story she told. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/183 "2017-04-13T01:46:47Z")
> [@golffan1963](#): > > I wonder if there is any significance to us seeing Gabriel go to the Lincoln Memorial, then gaze out toward the Washington Monument? Made me ask whether is could it be that down in the depths of his soul, he’s experiencing some doubt about his perceived righteousness of his cause?.. IIRC he once told Claudia “they had a Lincoln once” so it does seem like he admires Lincoln. It makes sense Lincoln would be only of the only US Presidents to be admired much by Soviets due to the whole emancipation thing. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/184 "2017-04-13T03:01:41Z")
Elizabeth left the Soviet Union in the 60’s. At the time Soviet economy was doing well. The rot did not start to set until well after. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/185 "2017-04-13T13:23:15Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Elizabeth would undoubtedly say that the life that she’s “lived” as an ersatz American is not universally shared by all in this country. She has taken Paige on a tour of some of the worse parts of DC. > > Also, ideologues often allow belief to blind them to the contradictions of reality. And not just among KGB operatives. We witness that effect here on a daily basis. She’s also offended by a lot of the hypocrisy, of them living in the richest country in the world, while that country bombs other places, which is a factor in keeping the other places poor. Take a look at some of the talks they’ve had with Tuan this season, about his experiences in Vietnam. It’s not so surprising that a native-born Russian agent, who let’s not forget went through _years_ of psychological conditioning prior to moving to the US, might still be a True Believer. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/186 "2017-04-13T13:42:05Z")
Anyone who thinks the leads are not “the good guys” is watching the show wrong, and is likely to be disappointed with the series finale. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I’m so off the pace this season even Alan Sepinwall’s reviews seek ok: > > ['The Americans' Review: 'Lotus 1-2-3' Puts Philip Through The Wringer](http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/the-americans-lotus-1-2-3-recap-review/) “Even”? He’s one of my favorite critics; but even if you don’t agree, what does this mean? > [@Don\_Draper](#): > > Did Gabriel just covertly warn Philip and Elizabeth that the Center might be a threat to them? That’s the way I took it. Or more like a warning to Philip. Like “maybe you’d better go way undercover, fake your own death”, something along those lines. But do a better job of it than Mischa’s mom! > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Yet here is Elizabeth remembering Das Capital from her teens, earnestly restating principles. And then checking out what happened to her Korean lady and that beautiful family she destroyed. I didn’t get that scene. We saw memories of the Korean lady (who was really a great character), but then the family she was watching looked Caucasian to me. I cheaped out and bought the SD version from iTunes instead of springing for HD, but still: I rewound it a couple times and stared hard, and it just didn’t look like it could be her. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I’m idealistic in my own way, so I can’t believe that someone like Elizabeth, who has spent upwards of twenty years living in the US, seeing how it works, can still believe that the Soviet system is better. I went to the USSR a few years after this, during the Gorbachev era but before the coup and the dissolution of the country into its constituent republics. My main reaction was, I’m afraid to tell you, not “look at how awful this place is–I’m sure glad I live in the good old capitalist U.S.A.!” More like (I had studied a couple years of Russian before going) “this is awesome, how the stores just have names like ‘MILK’ or ‘BREAD’ or ‘ICE CREAM’ (the best ice cream I’ve ever eaten, BTW) and they don’t try to put brands on everything or waste a lot of economic effort on advertising Brand A vs. Brand X”. I’m not saying I think I can get you to agree with my perspective (a very left wing one, especially in those days); but hopefully it might open your eyes to the fact that it’s not at all unrealistic that Elizabeth could still see her country the way she does. That book Paige is reading \*does \*have a lot of wisdom in it! ---
**Author:** ![golffan1963](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@golffan1963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/golffan1963)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/187 "2017-04-13T16:24:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Anyone who thinks the leads are not “the good guys” is watching the show wrong, and is likely to be disappointed with the series finale. What??? No offense Slacker, but I don’t think it’s up to anyone to tell people whether they are watching the show correctly or incorrectly. We are all individuals with our own perspective. This is a TV show. There is no “right” or “wrong” way to watch it. I don’t admire P or E. I don’t look at them as the “good guys” in any way shape or form, and I want them to lose in the end. My preference is that they get captured and live the rest of their lives in an American prison. That said, I would never tell someone who feels the opposite that they aren’t watching the show correctly. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/188 "2017-04-13T17:25:47Z")
I think real world politics might be affecting the writing here. This season is heavy on the “evil Russkies” trope which most certainly was not the case earlier and one of the things which made the show compelling. The Afghan War arc suffered for the same reason, the Mujahideen are shown as basically proto-Taliban which they, for the most part, were not IRL. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/189 "2017-04-13T18:43:47Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I didn’t get that scene. We saw memories of the Korean lady (who was really a great character), but then the family she was watching looked Caucasian to me. I cheaped out and bought the SD version from iTunes instead of springing for HD, but still: I rewound it a couple times and stared hard, and it just didn’t look like it could be her. A new family is in their old house now. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/190 "2017-04-13T19:50:42Z")
Agreed. A different family now lives in the house. > [@AK84](#): > > The Afghan War arc suffered for the same reason, the Mujahideen are shown as basically proto-Taliban which they, for the most part, were not IRL. Have you got examples of proto-Taliban indicators in the show because I don’t recall that. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/191 "2017-04-13T21:23:30Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > Also, it seemed to me at the psychologist’s (psychiatrist’s) office, Elizabeth basically told Paige’s version of the mugging story. From Paige’s POV, she was threatened by two homeless guys, there was a knife, she was scared that they would do something horrible to her, and help came out of an unexpected corner (Paige had no idea her mother could/would do that). Most importantly, Paige is still deeply affected by what happened (sleeping in the closet) and she kind of does want things to back to the way they were. Elizabeth, herself, is over the mugging. > I wonder if Elizabeth knows that’s the story she told. I’d guess the writers intended us to believe that Elizabeth was consciously making use of the mugging experience, from Paige’s point of view. One of the unique features of this show is that it depicts Philip and Elizabeth usually recruiting and managing people not through offers of cash or threats of exposure (or violence)—but instead through the talent for empathy that each of them possesses. Though they don’t tell the recruits or helpers the entire truth, they tell _part_ of the truth. For example: Philip discussing the self-doubts that brought him to EST as a way of deflecting teenage Kimmy’s assumption they’d have sex; Elizabeth bonding with Gregory over her sympathy at the racial discrimination he faced; both of them convincing Pastor Tim to refrain from turning them in, based on their genuine belief that all three of them are ‘on the same side’ in working for social justice. (In that last instance, as I recall, P & E told Tim a lie, but the emotional truth that they really do believe they are working for a better world was persuasive.) So in the psychologist’s office, Elizabeth was using the most effective method of reaching people that she has: confiding something that’s at least emotionally true, even if not factually accurate. She discloses something real, and that gets to people. In this case she was using her empathy to reveal her daughter’s likely reaction to the mugging rather than her own–but that’s still a use of empathy. ---
**Author:** ![golffan1963](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@golffan1963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/golffan1963)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/192 "2017-04-13T22:25:15Z")
Just wondering if anyone may agree… I’ve re-watched the Lincoln Memorial scene a few times, and it is–in spite of its brevity—fast becoming one of my favorite scenes from the entire series… and I’ve seen all of the episodes. One question that lingers: Does anyone think that this may signal an intention that Gabriel is considering defecting? This was my initial gut reaction after seeing it as the show aired live…but then I backed away from that. Now I’m not so sure I should have. There has been chatter about this in other forums, mainly the comment section of the New York Times review of the episode. One comment went so far as to make a flat-out prediction that Gabriel will bolt for the US. Any thoughts? I think it’s possible. I think it would be a hilarious if Gabriel defected… ---
**Author:** ![Sefton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Sefton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sefton)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/193 "2017-04-13T22:42:30Z")
Part of me thinks Gabriel is leaving so he can take care of Mischa. But that’s a little too nice for this show. After so many scenes of traveling, I can’t believe Mischa is just going back to where he started. But the first episode had twenty minutes of hole-digging, so the writers clearly aren’t afraid of wasting time. With Gabriel leaving, maybe Claudia will return as the main handler. Maybe she’ll bother P&E so much that they decide to quit. And then she’ll send Renee after them. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/194 "2017-04-14T00:34:58Z")
> [@golffan1963](#): > > One question that lingers: Does anyone think that this may signal an intention that Gabriel is considering defecting? This was my initial gut reaction after seeing it as the show aired live…but then I backed away from that. Now I’m not so sure I should have. > > There has been chatter about this in other forums, mainly the comment section of the New York Times review of the episode. One comment went so far as to make a flat-out prediction that Gabriel will bolt for the US. > > Any thoughts? I think it’s possible. I think it would be a hilarious if Gabriel defected… That’s just crass. Gabriel is preoccupued with the fate of not only of his nation - which is immense in itself - but of the communist experiment. The two people who most shaped the country he is in are Lincoln and Washington. I would imagine Gabriel sees the USA also as a failed experiment - particularly in terms of equality - yet the wealth capitalism generates could be used to achieve the kind of society he would hope for his own. As I said before, I think he recognises the end of the great experiment is coming and, at the Lincoln Memorial, ponders the future of his country. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/195 "2017-04-14T02:11:56Z")
Maybe he just _likes_ the memorials. But there were a few high level defectors during the eighties, weren’t there? ---
**Author:** ![golffan1963](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@golffan1963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/golffan1963)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/196 "2017-04-14T03:16:32Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > That’s just crass. Crass? Why? I believe you yourself mentioned that the characters know the end of the Soviet experiment is beginning to dawn on them. Do you think Gabriel is above such thoughts as defecting? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/197 "2017-04-14T12:57:58Z")
I don’t know what you mean by ‘above’. Appreciating what men like Lincoln and Washington stood for is not the same as an appreciation of what resulted. The USA has nothing to offer Gabriel. ---
**Author:** ![golffan1963](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@golffan1963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/golffan1963)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/198 "2017-04-14T15:45:28Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I don’t know what you mean by ‘above’… By “above” , I mean to ask whether his character is of such superiority that he wouldn’t think of defecting. [QUOTE=up\_the\_junction;20137628 The USA has nothing to offer Gabriel.[/QUOTE] How do you know? I think it’s entirely plausible that the trip to see Lincoln was a clue that Gabriel may not hate the US as much as it may appear. He’s already admitted he admires Lincoln. Suppose you’re an American living in Moscow, and you admire Lenin. Wouldn’t it at least cross your mind to think about the possibility of living there? I would agree that Gabriel defecting may not be likely, but I certainly think it’s possible. Pondering defection—especially when you consider who Gabriel works for–is not something one would want to advertise. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/199 "2017-04-14T17:13:04Z")
> [@golffan1963](#): > > I’ve re-watched the Lincoln Memorial scene a few times, and it is–in spite of its brevity—fast becoming one of my favorite scenes from the entire series… and I’ve seen all of the episodes. As I learned from listening to the podcast… Frank Langella wasn’t actually in DC for that scene. He was filmed in front of a blue screen in LA, and a double was filmed in DC. CGI can do some amazing things these days, in addition to spaceships, dragons, etc. (I don’t think he’s going to defect, however. It would be SO out of the blue.) ---
**Author:** ![golffan1963](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4af34b/32.png) [@golffan1963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/golffan1963)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/200 "2017-04-14T17:19:12Z")
Yes, you could tell it was CGI from watching the scene…but it was still a great moment! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255.md?page=11)