# The Americans; season 5 (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255 "2017-03-03T01:15:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/201 "2017-04-14T18:30:04Z")
> [@golffan1963](#): > > How do you know? I think it’s entirely plausible that the trip to see Lincoln was a clue that Gabriel may not hate the US as much as it may appear. He’s already admitted he admires Lincoln. Suppose you’re an American living in Moscow, and you admire Lenin. Wouldn’t it at least cross your mind to think about the possibility of living there? > > I would agree that Gabriel defecting may not be likely, but I certainly think it’s possible. Pondering defection—especially when you consider who Gabriel works for–is not something one would want to advertise. Why wouldn’t he like Lincoln? Communism didn’t even exist then. He thinks that the USA took a wrong turn when Russia did the right thing in the 1920s. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/202 "2017-04-14T18:45:06Z")
> [@Sefton](#): > > After so many scenes of traveling, I can’t believe Mischa is just going back to where he started. But the first episode had twenty minutes of hole-digging, so the writers clearly aren’t afraid of wasting time. I love this about these writers: they aren’t afraid of confounding audience expectations. See also Martha’s “Chekhov’s gun” that fans were buzzing about for literally years, and then ended up never being used. Now I’m hoping that Renee just turns out to be an American lady who’s dating Stan, period. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I would imagine Gabriel sees the USA also as a failed experiment - particularly in terms of equality - yet the wealth capitalism generates could be used to achieve the kind of society he would hope for his own. > > As I said before, I think he recognises the end of the great experiment is coming and, at the Lincoln Memorial, ponders the future of his country. I like this take. > [@hajario](#): > > A new family is in their old house now. Ah, okay…thanks. > [@golffan1963](#): > > What??? No offense Slacker, but I don’t think it’s up to anyone to tell people whether they are watching the show correctly or incorrectly. We are all individuals with our own perspective. This is a TV show. There is no “right” or “wrong” way to watch it. > > I don’t admire P or E. I don’t look at them as the “good guys” in any way shape or form, and I want them to lose in the end. My preference is that they get captured and live the rest of their lives in an American prison. > > That said, I would never tell someone who feels the opposite that they aren’t watching the show correctly. “Watching wrong” is kind of a catchphrase, but in literary criticism, they talk about reading a text “with the grain” vs. “against the grain”. Would you acknowledge that you and others who see P & E as the villains and hope they “lose in the end” are consuming this “text” against the grain? To me, it’s like watching _Oceans Eleven_ and rooting for the heist to get foiled by the cops and for all the conspirators to get long prison terms. Like, sure: technically they are committing a crime and we wouldn’t want to actually legalize what they are doing…but that’s not the point of the story. Additionally, this show features a lot of stuff that has to do with family relationships, the strength of the protagonists’ marriage, their psychological health (especially Philip’s), etc. I would think that would all be boring and beside the point for someone who saw P & E as villains. ETA: > [@hajario](#): > > Why wouldn’t he like Lincoln? Communism didn’t even exist then. Lincoln’s [progressive economic policy](http://progressiveamericanthought.blogspot.com/2015/08/lincolns-economic-adviser-on-competing.html) was atypical for the 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/203 "2017-04-14T21:36:55Z")
> [@golffan1963](#): > > …One question that lingers: Does anyone think that this may signal an intention that Gabriel is considering defecting? This was my initial gut reaction after seeing it as the show aired live…but then I backed away from that. Now I’m not so sure I should have. > > There has been chatter about this in other forums, mainly the comment section of the New York Times review of the episode. One comment went so far as to make a flat-out prediction that Gabriel will bolt for the US. > … If Gabriel were planning to defect, he would give P&E some sort of cryptic warning that they should be ready to disappear, fast. _As he did._ That’s not proof of anything–it’s plausible that he was warning them about either Center’s wavering support (as conveyed by Claudia) or about their general vulnerability to exposure. But if the writers do plan to have Gabriel defect, it _has_ been set up. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/204 "2017-04-14T22:03:25Z")
> [@golffan1963](#): > > How do you know? I think it’s entirely plausible that the trip to see Lincoln was a clue that Gabriel may not hate the US as much as it may appear. He’s already admitted he admires Lincoln. Suppose you’re an American living in Moscow, and you admire Lenin. Wouldn’t it at least cross your mind to think about the possibility of living there? Well, maybe. If we accept he senses the wind of change at home, maybe I just prefer to think Gabriel hopes a Soviet politician with Lincoln’s resolve and ability will emerge to see his country through the uncertain times ahead. As it happens, Gorbachev - well Yeltsin in particular - did face down a coup attempt from the old school communists. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/205 "2017-04-14T23:31:46Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I’m so off the pace this season even Alan Sepinwall’s reviews seek ok: > > ['The Americans' Review: 'Lotus 1-2-3' Puts Philip Through The Wringer](http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/the-americans-lotus-1-2-3-recap-review/) I’m only an occasional reader of his (usually when someone links him here) but I noticed two mistakes in [his latest write-up.](http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/the-americans-crossbreed-recap-review/) > [@](#): > > - While the show usually uses its Brooklyn production base to stand in for Washington, D.C., they actually went to the Lincoln Memorial to film Gabriel as he contemplated leaving the place represented by Lincoln, the Washington Monument, etc., to return to Mother Russia. This I only know is wrong because someone in this thread mentioned it was green-screened and by default, I side with the Doper. > [@](#): > > - Elizabeth’s trick with the key — heating it up in the bathroom and then inserting it into the lock while the metal was still soft from the heat so it would take on the proper new shape — is one I haven’t seen before in spy or caper stories. And this is just laughably wrong! Metal still soft…what? The door was not locked. She was using the carbon build-up on the key to make an impression of the pins in the lock. Still kind of stretching it that that would reliably work, but not nearly as ludicrous as her holding a molten key. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/206 "2017-04-15T01:20:15Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > This I only know is wrong because someone in this thread mentioned it was green-screened and by default, I side with the Doper. They (the show) did go to DC, and filmed at the actual Lincoln Memorial… but they were filming a double for Frank Langella, not the actor himself. > [@](#): > > And this is just laughably wrong! Metal still soft…what? The door was not locked. She was using the carbon build-up on the key to make an impression of the pins in the lock. Still kind of stretching it that that would reliably work, but not nearly as ludicrous as her holding a molten key. I don’t think he’s disagreeing with you. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/207 "2017-04-15T07:28:14Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I don’t think he’s disagreeing with you. Yeah, but I’m disagreeing with him. What he said was preposterous. Again, she simply used the flame to build up carbon residue on the key so that it would be marked by the lock, it wasn’t some new technique using heat to shape the key. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/208 "2017-04-15T07:36:59Z")
And as for the other bit: \*“they actually went to the Lincoln Memorial to film Gabriel as he contemplated leaving the place represented by Lincoln, the Washington Monument, etc., to return to Mother Russia.” \*That implies Gabriel went to the Lincoln Memorial. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/209 "2017-04-15T07:38:29Z")
Real illegals like Rudolf Able were permitted to return home periodically for rest, unlike our leads. This means that they don’t know about the economic collapse that is occurring; especially Elizabeth, her last memory is of a country with a rising GDP and standard of living. It would be great if the recall Elizabeth for a short period of time and she gets a fit. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/210 "2017-04-15T08:39:12Z")
Didn’t she visit Russia to see her dying mother, with her daughter, just a year ago? Am I misremembering – or perhaps the mid-80s economic crisis was more sudden than I thought? (Or her visit was too short and focused for her to have noticed much?) ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/211 "2017-04-15T16:42:59Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Didn’t she visit Russia to see her dying mother, with her daughter, just a year ago? Am I misremembering – or perhaps the mid-80s economic crisis was more sudden than I thought? (Or her visit was too short and focused for her to have noticed much?) IIRC, Elizabeth and Paige went to West Germany (perhaps Berlin), and Elizabeth’s mother was smuggled over the border. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/212 "2017-04-15T16:58:28Z")
Right, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/213 "2017-04-18T15:39:53Z")
Why did they bring Page to meet Gabriel? Especially since they know his time is up. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/214 "2017-04-18T18:30:34Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Why did they bring Page to meet Gabriel? > > Especially since they know his time is up. It was like they were introducing her to her grandfather. He was a dear friend and colleague who had a huge impact on their life and this was the only chance to meet him. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/215 "2017-04-18T18:31:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Why did they bring Page to meet Gabriel? > Especially since they know his time is up. In-story, Gabriel is a respected operative and Center would want his personal assessment of Page’s readiness to be brought into the family business. Plot-wise, if Gabriel is to remain a part of _The Americans_ via becoming a defector, it might be useful at some point in the story if Gabriel and Page are able to instantly recognize one another. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/216 "2017-04-18T19:33:07Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It was like they were introducing her to her grandfather. He was a dear friend and colleague who had a huge impact on their life and this was the only chance to meet him. I think so. In times to come, Paige is going face a lot of challenges to how she views her parents, and also the political system they work for. She has no context beyond her parents of what they represent. Perhaps meeting Gabriel can provide a bridge, a human face to all of that other world. Perhaps creating an anchor point in her memory because things will get messy for her. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/217 "2017-04-18T19:57:24Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > The thing that struck me about that final sequence is how much it looked like a baptism - especially after Paige mentioned that that was the most meaningful thing of her life. (I’d need to rewatch Paige’s actual baptism to see if they actually matched.) But you had the father & mother (dressed up) escorting/presenting their child to the elder of the community. It was very ceremonial staging. That’s how my wife and I both read it, she had said that best she ever felt was the day she got baptized and now she was getting a second baptism. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/218 "2017-04-18T21:14:43Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > In-story, Gabriel is a respected operative and Center would want his personal assessment of Page’s readiness to be brought into the family business. > > Plot-wise, if Gabriel is to remain a part of _The Americans_ via becoming a defector, it might be useful at some point in the story if Gabriel and Page are able to instantly recognize one another. There’s no way Gabriel would defect. He’s too old, as he himself would put it. Nevertheless, I am a little fearful that Gabriel may not be going back to motherland. Somehow I don’t think they’d write him out of the show that easily. My guess is that he will be exposed as an illegal, arrested, and the Jennings will then be left to fear whether or not he’ll be compelled to rat them out. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/219 "2017-04-18T22:17:37Z")
Paige hasn’t actually _done_ anything yet that she could get into legal trouble over, has she? Some of her q+a with Stan’s son, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255/220 "2017-04-18T22:38:58Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Why did they bring Page to meet Gabriel? > > Especially since they know his time is up. It’s precisely because he is leaving soon that they brought her to meet him now. Gabriel has been a huge part of their lives. He’s their handler - and he’s also been their mentor, a father figure, a guide, a protector, a confidant, and a marriage counselor at times. And he’s a friend (remember the Scrabble games?) of sorts. He’s about to be gone from their lives effectively forever. They’re bringing Paige because this is their only chance to have the two of them meet. If they could have figured out how to get Henry up to speed quickly enough, I’m sure they would have brought him, too. Poor Henry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-americans-season-5-open-spoilers/781255.md?page=12)