# The "Anglosphere": yes or no? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799 "2003-02-09T01:56:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/21 "2003-02-09T21:46:07Z")
Oh, and thanks for the links, everyone. Time to do a bit of reading. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/22 "2003-02-09T21:51:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pjen \* > **All we really need to confirm the Anglosphere is to invite Ireland and the USA to rejoin the Commonwealth of Nations** First, the USA was never in the Commonwealth. Second, yes, do invite the USA to the Commonwealth. We could use some more economic puppets. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/23 "2003-02-09T22:00:10Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Sunspace \* > \*\* It cites the pundits’ lack of personal experience with war as a reason for encouraging it_\* In the USA, the term for such people is “chickenhawks”. > [@](#): > > \*\*If the Anglosphere is to be another hegemony, with the English-speaking nations formally ruling the world ‘for its own good’, it will be a disaster. The world will rebel, seeing nothing more that the powerful out to grab all that they can, even more than now. \*\* Aw, but don’t you just _love_ Kipling? ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/24 "2003-02-09T22:04:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\* > > Why would we want to join? How does it help us? If you want a free immigration pact, then i’m afraid its your going to be surprised. After 9/11 noone is going to get a an easy time into America. \*\* Evidently, you have no idea how the gubmint works. To this day, the US State Department is as free with visas from Middle East countries as they were before the attack on NYC. Evidently, it seems that career diplomats are in charge of that program, and it would make too many waves to shut it down. Indeed, the only people who seem to be having a harder time getting in are those with a legitimate reason to be here. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/25 "2003-02-09T22:23:06Z")
I haven’t actually _read_ much Kipling. 🙂 But I’ve been digging into the history of my family, and since we originated in England, and inevitably I’m coming up against the British Empire. Seeing London a few years ago was a shock as well. I’m so used to living in a place that is essentially new, that seeing and feeling the roots of my family and culture was completely new. I’m about halfway through **qts** ’ [third link](http://www.pattern.com/bennettj-anglosphereprimer.html), which to my delight turned out to be James C Bennett’s original “Anglospere Primer” article! What Bennett describes is far different than the kind of semi-fearful inward withdrawl and blindly-arrogant, soon-to-be-resented rule implied by the Toronto Star article; he describes a loose networked colalition of like-minded and similarly-cultured peoples, which welcomes people of every stripe. He says that the key to the informal Anglosphere’s success so far is a strong ‘civil society’, which lays the structures within which diversity and capitalism can thrive, and he draws connections to England’s history to explain why England developed this civil society. That’s as far as I’ve read. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/26 "2003-02-09T22:27:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrThompson \* > \*\*a) The Falklands, and invasions of, are a completely different topic and not appropriate for this thread. > \*\* Congrats on being named a mod, MrThompson. Argentines speak Spanish, btw. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/27 "2003-02-09T22:31:42Z")
Spanish in Argentinia. English in the Falklands, I believe, as it is British Territory. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/28 "2003-02-09T22:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > \*\*Spanish in Argentinia. > > English in the Falklands, I believe, as it is British Territory. \*\* True. I was noting that U.S. loyalties in the Falklands dispute were with fellow anglophones. Argentina does have some strong historical and cultural ties to England, I believe, and preserves many British customs such as teas and cricket clubs. At least this is what I’ve read, and I’ll yield the floor to anyone with more expertise. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/29 "2003-02-09T23:52:53Z")
Yes Britain did have very strong cultural ties to Argentina born out of the huge investment by Britain and British firms in the early 20th century. Also Argentina used to have a small Welsh-speaking population in Patagonia (though I hear the language has died out there now, but I do know that their is an Argentinian soccer team with a welsh name) who were descended from welsh settlers. I think there are some pretty old cricket clubs in Argentina, but the sport is not that widely played, however Rugby union is played quite alot out there but of course in Argentina soccer predominates. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/30 "2003-02-10T09:28:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\*It _does_ seem that in a conflict between English and non-English-speaking forces, the U.S. tends to support the anglophones. Maybe it’s cultural and military ties. But take the Falkland Islands. Did we really in our hearts believe they were not the _Islas Malvinas,_ or were we supporting a traditional ally? \*\* From my little experience on this issue, what I’ve read about it, the people on the actual islands wanted the British to stay in control. Erek ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/31 "2003-02-10T11:15:50Z")
The problem with the Anglosphere is that it’s predominantly “white” nations (yeah, I realise the UK and the US are very mixed, but generally speaking it’s caucasian-origin races). So having immigration policies based on that hearks(? harks?) back to now much-reviled things the “White Australia” policy. Despite this, English fluency is a major point requirement in Australian migration, so effectively there is bias in favour of the Anglosphere. Bizarrely, when filling out migration forms, there is no actual box or way to tick: “yes, I am a native English speaker”. They ask for proof of your English ability. To get my fluency points, I submitted a second document citing my birth certificate (English speaking country, ie England!!), my degreee (English Language and Literature from English speaking University in England) and my job (English language journalism for English language publications and broadcasters). Seemed to do the trick. One little box marked “Anglosphere? Y/N” would have been a whole lot easier though… ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/32 "2003-02-10T15:24:23Z")
English influence in Argentina was very important, particularly ate the turn of the century (20, of course). Sports is the best exxample: Football, Rugby and Polo soon become very popular in Argentina, of course eventually we kicked english butt in all of them 🙂 (in fact their rugby team is better than ours). In fact in 1933 the vicepresident of argentina Julio Roca (not to be mistaken with his father, who was president of argentina) went so far as to say that “Argentina is one of the brightest jewells in the empire crown”. End of all my hijacks. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/33 "2003-02-10T23:36:13Z")
[am not ending your hijack] That title is often attributed to India. Could you check if that quote is apocryphal? [http://www.dingwall.bc.ca/history/main.php3?cat=places&listing=India\_1947](http://www.dingwall.bc.ca/history/main.php3?cat=places&listing=India_1947) ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/34 "2003-02-11T01:34:28Z")
When I first read the title of this thread, I thought it meant to debate if there exists a tacit association amongst english speaking nations. Then I realized, with a bit of disappointment, that it put forth the question of wether it was desirable to create or embrace such an association. I find it alright for similar cultures to empathize. And I find it very good for people of similar principles to unite in a common cause. But to foster a power association based on more or less arbitrary cultural-ethnic similitude strikes me as a bit sinister. Something like a language Ku-klux-klan. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/35 "2003-02-11T03:42:14Z")
in his dystopian satire THE WANTING SEED presented the world’s superpowers as RUSSPUN, CHISPUN & ENGSPUN, the Russian-, Chinese-, & English Speaking Unions ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799/36 "2003-02-11T05:08:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by litost \* > \*\*[am not ending your hijack] > > That title is often attributed to India. Could you check if that quote is apocryphal? > \*\* Well, with regards to India, “one of” is dropped from the quote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anglosphere-yes-or-no/153799.md?page=1)