# The answer to the gun problem **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 20, 2000, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833 "2000-09-20T06:33:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/21 "2000-09-20T17:56:37Z")
**Anthracite** : > [@](#): > > Unfortuantely, your statement, while correct, and my sarcasticly-made statement, while also correct, both oversimplify and ignore the real issues. But of course. 😃 **Spiny Norman** , you’re dead right. The AK-47 is waaaaaay overrated. For utility, reliability, and muzzle velocity, the 74 is a vastly superior weapon–I’m most partial to the AK-74M. The 74U is a good terror weapon–good RoF and size, but it’s a CHS (Can’t Hit Shit). For size, concealability, and performance in an assault rifle, I’d go with the AK-105. 'Course the 47 is a 7.62, which internationally is a more common caliber, I believe. But 5.45mm still puts substantial holes through things at 920 m/s. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/22 "2000-09-20T18:00:39Z")
Sheesh. You’d almost think andros is a gun geek. And that he comes from a military family. ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/23 "2000-09-20T18:06:50Z")
While I agree the Ak47 is overrated it sounds so cool when it is being fired. Second, what does “ak” stand for anyway. And I do like the hk mp5 especially with a silencer on it. One more thing have y’all noticed it is harder to get banana clips for even an auto 22? I have Rutger(sp) 22 semi auto rifle and I can not find a banana clip for it. Right now I just deal with the 10 shot clip. ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/24 "2000-09-20T18:18:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > \*\*Re: So the solution to the gun problem is
 > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Biffer Spice \* > > \*\*more guns? \*\* > > Yes. And btw I think it is bull that you have to go through so much red tape to buy a fully auto ak47 or M16. I fired one of my friends one time and it was a blast. If you aim at the water, the bullets splash the water up to almost 10 to 20 ft. Too fun. Besides what gave the govt the right to take away one of my rights of owning a automatic weapon. BTW put me down for two ak47 at a couple hundred a piece. That should give some of those foriegn kids lunch money for a while. > > \*\* For purposes of rebuttal, I’ll assume you’re a conservative–probably a registered Republican–and cite this: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. “Constitution of the United States,” MicrosoftÂź EncartaÂź Encyclopedia 99. © 1993-1998 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Nowhere does it say “automatic weapon.” Not to mention that conservatives (still assuming you are one) are the ones who usually pull out the “intent of the framers” card. That being the case, you get a fucking muzzle loader that can barely be aimed and takes 5 minutes or so before you get off a second shot. I won’t even get off into the whole “well regulated Militia” clause, though any basic parsing of the sentence shows that it’s a requirement. But grammar and politics don’t always mix. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/25 "2000-09-20T18:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sloblock\_uk \* > \*\*As a “foreigner” I find this discussion quite chilling. . \*\* That’s OK, no hard feelings. Next time the Gerries are lined up across the Channel, we’ll still pick up our guns and come help out. Kay? ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/26 "2000-09-20T18:28:25Z")
\ I had always heard that the great thing about the Ak was that you could schlump it through mud and water and gunk and it would still fire. As opposed to our M16, which is a touch more tempermental. \ Oh, and **Spiny Norman** , “for the ‘moody loner in the belltower’” I would opt for the Barret, light 50. Good from over a mile. 'Nuf said. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/27 "2000-09-20T18:34:40Z")
**Bill** , AK is a Russian abbreviation for “Avtomat (Automatic)Kalashnikov,” named for its inventor, Mikhail Kalashnikov. I hardly think there should be more guns around simply because they’re “cool,” though. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/28 "2000-09-20T18:37:37Z")
And can I just laugh and laugh and laugh at all the “patriotic 'Mercuns” who are now fighting for their right to own any one of a number of Russian-designed and -made weapons? Twenty years ago, few in the US would be caught dead (NPI) with a Commie gun. ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/29 "2000-09-20T18:44:32Z")
Stofsky, you’re an moron. Why do you keep posting? Some psychotic urge? Hey, if we’re retaining the intended purpose of the Constitution to that available back in the 1770s, what about the freedom of speech? Why, that has no meaning for TV, radio, internet, magazines, etc., because they weren’t invented yet! Therefore, the only freedom we have it that of speech and newsprint, but it has to be printed using only presses and typesets, none of this new fangled computer layout and laser printing. But that’s beside the point, because even if the populace DOES form a well armed, well regulated militia, shitheads like you come along and scream “cult, klan, crazy” until they’re forced into a standoff with the Government. Shut your fucking mouth. Like I said in chat last night, “First they came for the gun owners, but I said nothing, because I didn’t own a gun
” Christ man, open your eyes to what’s happening around you, to your country. Grammar and politics don’t mix? Apparently with you, intelligence and speaking don’t mix. And there’s no such thing as a ‘registered’ Republican, either, you dumb fuck. Go shove stuff from your garbage pile up your ass and sing me a lullabye. –Tim ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/30 "2000-09-20T18:57:17Z")
I believe that the thread is already hijacked all over the place. Yup, the AK is supposed to be able to withstand a lot of abuse, but why not take care of your weapon instead ? Anyway, if you start “sclumping” your weapon, you’ll beat the sights out of alignment in seconds. Bad idea. There are probably cooler sniper rifles than the Garand, but it’s the only weapon that I’ve ever just picked up and instantly been able to shoot well. No steep learning curve, no unpleasant ergonomic surprises. Army days, sigh
 S. Norman ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/31 "2000-09-20T19:12:45Z")
**Spiny** , what I meant was that, as I understood it, under harse environs and overall shitty conditions, the AK would maintain it’s usability, where the -16 would _have_ to be cleaned. I think we’d all agree a clean weapon is a good weapon. And I totally agree with you on the Garand, wonderful piece of equipment. Given a chance, though, I’d love to try my have at ultra-long range, and we were talking hypothetical, bell-tower, here. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/32 "2000-09-20T19:21:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stofsky \* > **Nowhere does it say “automatic weapon.” Not to mention that conservatives (still assuming you are one) are the ones who usually pull out the “intent of the framers” card. That being the case, you get a fucking muzzle loader that can barely be aimed and takes 5 minutes or so before you get off a second shot.** As indicated by Homer’s first amendment analogy, the Constitution was not meant to be applied only to the technology extant when it was written. The old muzzleloading muskets used in the American Revolution were owned and used by citizen and army alike. It would seem, then, that citizens are entitled to own the same firearms as those used by the military. > [@](#): > > \*\*I won’t even get off into the whole “well regulated Militia” clause, though any basic parsing of the sentence shows that it’s a requirement. But grammar and politics don’t always mix. \*\* You wanna debate Amendment Number Two? Bring it on. I’ll let you fire the first shot, so to speak. Although, you might wanna start a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/33 "2000-09-20T19:32:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiny Norman \* > > - seriously, it’s not a high-quality piece of weaponry. (Not those I’ve handled, anyway - I 've never fired one). > > Stamped steel with plywood grips, a mechanism that “fits where it touches” - it’s simply not confidence-inspiring. If I were to venture a guess, those you’ve seen, Anthracite, were probably a deluxe export version. > > If you want Kalashnikov, go for the AK-74 (5.56 mm variant) - there’s a folding stock model. They’ve modified the flash suppressor to keep it steady during autofire, and you can of course carry more ammo 5.56 than 7.62 ammo. The AK-74 is a 5.45mm weapon, a calibre NATO does not use. Is there a 5.56mm model? Ammo availability may become an issue. If you’re planning on a shooting spree (and who isn’t?) why not the classic M-16? Today’s models are highly reliable and extremely light; a fully loaded weapon weighs less than nine pounds, so you can tote lots of extra magazines. Contrary to popular belief, the M-16 is more reliable than the AK-47. High muzzle velocity allows for shooting through doors and vehicles and such so you can hit that hard-to-see target crouching behind cover. And it’s a very easy weapon to fire accurately over mid-range distances, so if you’re going to finish your day by climbing up a bell tower, you can still bring pinpoint fire on SWAT teams up to five hundred years away. Combine that accuracy with the high rate of fire and next-to-no-recoil properties that allow for maximum coverage when spraying the food court at the mall with hot lead, you get the best of both worlds. I always shot extremely well with mine. Now, if you’re planning on staying up in the belltower all day, I would strongly suggest the M243 light machine gun. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/34 "2000-09-20T19:33:09Z")
[hijack] > [@](#): > > And there’s no such thing as a ‘registered’ Republican, either, you dumb fuck. Ummmm . . . are you sure about that? Aside from the fact that you can join any party and be a “card-carrying member,” several states require primary voters to commit to one of the two major parties in order to vote, and state that they support the platform of that party and will for some amount of time. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/35 "2000-09-20T19:43:09Z")
Hey Homer, In the words of Sam Kinnison in the movie “Back to School” “good answer I like the way you think.” That was reason I liked the ak47 cause you don’t gotta clean it all the time. I like shoot’n not clean’n. ---
**Author:** ![2nd\_Law](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f475e1/32.png) [@2nd\_Law](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2nd_Law)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/36 "2000-09-20T19:44:54Z")
slight hijack > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homer \* > And there’s no such thing as a ‘registered’ Republican
 Actually, here in Illinois, where we do not have open primaries, in the primary elections you have to declare your party affiliation to get a Democratic or Republican ballot, so here in Chicago we do refer to people as registered Republicans or Democrats. * * * Dave One of the 37 registered Republicans in Chicago mainly because I’m a contrarian. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/37 "2000-09-20T19:49:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wildest Bill \* > Second, what does “ak” stand for anyway. Avtomat Kalashnikova (more or less) WAG: Kalashnikov is the design bureau responsible; and it’s an automatic weapon (in the same way as MiG is short for the Mikoyan-Gurevich design bureau). ---
**Author:** ![Wildest\_Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Wildest\_Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildest_Bill)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/38 "2000-09-20T20:01:21Z")
You know its fun being sarcastic and funny talking about using these weapons to go on killing sprees but lets look at what these weapons could really help with. How about when that nut was shooting people from the tower at UT. A civilian could have taken him out sooner saving more lives if he had been spraying the top of that tower with an AK47 or M16. Btw I don’t think there should have been any proble, with the cops letting civilians shoot at that wacko. He was killing innocent people he did not need a trial. He needed to be stopped. Second, what if when gore is elected he tries to get rid of all the guns which we have a right to own in this country. Which guns(automatics or semiautomatics) are going to do more damage to a corrupt govt trying to take our guns? You know the answer that’s right automatics. When you think about it maybe that is why they are illegal already. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/39 "2000-09-20T20:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Second, what if when gore is elected he tries to get rid of all the guns which we have a right to own in this country. Do you honestly believe he will? If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2000, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833/40 "2000-09-20T21:12:48Z")
Rickjay: My bad on the AK-74 calibre, you’re of course right. I’ve never fired the M-16, our Army used H&K G3 rifles back then. Not bad weapons at all once you learn how to handle them, but 7.62x52 delivers an unpleasant recoil if you’re not careful. And of course, you have to compensate for distance with the relatively low muzzle velocity. Nah; I think I’ll stick with my choices. S. Norman [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-the-gun-problem/33833.md?page=3)