# The answer to your question is Garrison Keillor **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 29, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071 "2017-11-29T18:14:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/21 "2017-11-29T21:11:37Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > But I stand by my position that the isolated touching of a coworker on the back, followed by an accepted apology and no repeat, warrants - at most - an official counseling to not do it again. In my opinion, women are tough enough, and sexual harassment is serious enough, to not insult everyone by putting this in the same category. Just my opinion. That’s cool. It just seems that according to him, his hand ended up inside of her shirt. Just doesn’t seem likely. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/22 "2017-11-29T21:18:02Z")
Dude should be officially sanctioned for those eyebrows. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/23 "2017-11-29T21:21:28Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s cool. It just seems that according to him, his hand ended up inside of her shirt. Just doesn’t seem likely. I mean, [a shirt like this would make it possible](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9d/72/00/9d7200bed39b10a8a50bd47e3257b5f6--casual-shorts-open-backs.jpg). I’m not saying he’s telling the whole truth here, but I don’t think that particular detail is actually impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/24 "2017-11-29T21:24:22Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > But I stand by my position that the isolated touching of a coworker on the back, followed by an accepted apology and no repeat, warrants - at most - an official counseling to not do it again. In my opinion, women are tough enough, and sexual harassment is serious enough, to not insult everyone by putting this in the same category. Just my opinion. I stand by my position that they’re no way they decided to sever ties with him over a single incident of casually touching a coworker on the back, especially after having an independent firm review the complaints FROM MULTIPLE WOMEN. And I think that insinuating that anyone who objects to a superior putting his hand inside a woman’s shirt against her wishes considers women ‘weak’, or that sexual harassment is not serious is a gross argument for allowing sexual harassment. Calling a superior putting his hand inside a subordinate’s shirt ‘sexual harassment’ is not an insult to anyone other than the harasser, and in that case it’s a justified insult. I also wonder how many people saying that him putting his hand in her shirt is no big deal would say the same thing if it was a case where a big, flamboyantly gay man did the same thing to a dude in a bar, and the dude punched out the gay guy. I am pretty sure most of the ‘no big deal types’ would expect a punch for the gay guy sliding his hand through a hole in a guy’s shirt to touch his skin, and would not be at all surprised that the dude in the bar felt sexually harassed and reacted angrily. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/25 "2017-11-29T21:25:15Z")
Are we speaking on Minnesota or National Public Radio? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/26 "2017-11-29T21:25:40Z")
When I read it, I was wondering if she moved somehow, or bent over. Say her shirt-tail was untucked and, instead of the small of the back, his hand touched skin. And she moved somehow that made it “move up a couple of inches.” But I agree, it is hard to imagine what is described. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/27 "2017-11-29T21:28:16Z")
Fine, **pan**. We view things differently. I imagine more details will come out. The story I read was ambiguous. One place it mentioned 2 complaints, but later said “no other complaints.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/28 "2017-11-29T21:36:05Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > When I read it, I was wondering if she moved somehow, or bent over. Say her shirt-tail was untucked and, instead of the small of the back, his hand touched skin. And she moved somehow that made it “move up a couple of inches.” But I agree, it is hard to imagine what is described. Again: look at the shirt I linked to above. Shirts in this style are reasonably common, and if you’re trying to pat someone’s back, it’d be pretty easy to hit bare skin. If you’re coming in with a pat from the side, some sort of side-hug pat thing, ending up with your hand under the fabric is pretty easy to imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/29 "2017-11-29T21:38:08Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Fine, **pan**. We view things differently. I imagine more details will come out. The story I read was ambiguous. One place it mentioned 2 complaints, but later said “no other complaints.” > [@](#): > > However, his account only explained one encounter, while Minnesota Public Radio reported that two staffers had complained about him. (He acknowledged there were two accusers in his own statement to MPR.) You should read the story linked in the OP. It says explicitly that there were two staffers complaining, and also explicitly points out that his account only addresses one of the two. There really is no ambiguity there. Also, I notice you didn’t comment on my hypothetical other situation. If a flamboyantly gay guy put his hand inside of another guy’s shirt in a bar, would you expect the guy to take that as a sexual gesture and not be surprised if the feelee punched the feeler? You seem to feel that it’s absurd to consider ‘hand inside the shirt’ sexual harassment, but I think it pretty obviously is something that is a sexual type of touch under most circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/30 "2017-11-29T21:44:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again: look at the shirt I linked to above. Shirts in this style are reasonably common, and if you’re trying to pat someone’s back, it’d be pretty easy to hit bare skin. If you’re coming in with a pat from the side, some sort of side-hug pat thing, ending up with your hand under the fabric is pretty easy to imagine. And to repeat the question I find interesting, here’s a [man’s shirt](http://imacyray2007.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/18182632/Mens-No-Pain-No-Gain-Workout-Y-Back-Bodybuilding-Tank-Top-XS-2XL-0-0.jpg)that leaves considerable back exposed. If a guy who appeared gay were to come up to a guy wearing this shirt in a bar and go to ‘pat his back’ but ended up with his hand inside the shirt, do you think the guy would take it as a come-on? Would you be surprised if the guy threw a punch in response? > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Are we speaking on Minnesota or National Public Radio? It’s actually MPR, not NPR, I got them mixed up in my comments. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/31 "2017-11-29T21:54:44Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > And to repeat the question I find interesting, here’s a [man’s shirt](http://imacyray2007.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/18182632/Mens-No-Pain-No-Gain-Workout-Y-Back-Bodybuilding-Tank-Top-XS-2XL-0-0.jpg)that leaves considerable back exposed. If a guy who appeared gay were to come up to a guy wearing this shirt in a bar and go to ‘pat his back’ but ended up with his hand inside the shirt, do you think the guy would take it as a come-on? Would you be surprised if the guy threw a punch in response? I take your point, but that shirt doesn’t really work: you’d really have to work at it to get your hand inside that shirt, given its tight fit. There are a lot of women’s shirts with loose-hanging fabric where it could happen accidentally. But yeah, it’d be very easy for it to happen as a sleazy come-on as well. If someone patted the bare back of a dude wearing a muscle shirt, I’d consider violence to be wholly unwarranted, but I’d also expect recoiling and serious stink-eye to the patter. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/32 "2017-11-29T22:31:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But no, don’t touch coworkers without their permission. Don’t touch anyone without their permission. You go around work just touching people? I don’t think it’s as simple as that. I absolutely _loathe_ physical contact with anyone apart from close family. No good reason, I’m just twitchy that way. But the fact is a lot of people incorporate touching into expressions of friendship. It took a while for my coworkers to understand I wasn’t unfriendly, just not touchy. Despite being up front about my preferences, I’ve gotten used to the fact I’m going to get back-patted & hugged at work and that my skin is going to crawl off my bones and huddle in a corner as a result. Alternately, they understand I value them as friends despite avoiding physical, even eye contact. The thing is, if they were to ‘start respecting my boundaries’ I can’t say I would feel better about the situation because I would feel some level of estrangement from them. That said, I have yet to have someone place their hand anywhere on my back that felt inappropriately familiar. I guess it’s all about knowing your audience. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/33 "2017-11-29T23:02:21Z")
Are these allegations being believed with just “he said, she said”? While I don’t doubt these allegations, if a woman wanted to get a guy in trouble, it seems that now she would be believed if she made something up. I guess that is to be weighed against women now being believed. I believe Anita Hill. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/34 "2017-11-30T00:41:58Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > You should read the story linked in the OP. It says explicitly that there were two staffers complaining, and also explicitly points out that his account only addresses one of the two. There really is no ambiguity there. It does? I couldn’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/35 "2017-11-30T00:55:13Z")
Give it 9-12 months and no guy, anywhere, will have an important job at all (except Trump). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/36 "2017-11-30T01:04:56Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > Give it 9-12 months and no guy, anywhere, will have an important job at all (except Trump). Do you believe that all men are harassing women constantly? Or only powerful men? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/37 "2017-11-30T01:14:31Z")
I saw Keillor perform live once, at a private party for publishing professionals in Manhattan about 20 years ago. He did a dialogue based on a fictional correspondence between Walt Whitman and Oscar Wilde. Today’s news was surprising, because he did such I good job that I’ve assumed he was gay ever since. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/38 "2017-11-30T02:14:33Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Well, it looks like his defense strategy is working well; in spite of the fact that TWO women are mentioned in the press release from NPR … [Here’s the MPR press release.](https://www.mpr.org/press/2017/11/29/statement-from-minnesota-public-radio-regarding-garrison-keillor-and-a-prairie-home-compa) Am I missing something? Bolding mine. > [@](#): > > Minnesota Public Radio (MPR) is terminating its contracts with Garrison Keillor and his private media companies after recently learning of allegations of his inappropriate behavior with **an** individual who worked with him … > > … Based on what we currently know, **there are no similar allegations** involving other staff. … Serious where are you reading what you are reading? I have no idea what the truth is. I see every reason why in the current climate, especially in Minnesota with the Franken thing going on, MPR would rather be seen as responding vigorously than be seen as anything other than fully supporting the #metoo movement. To question any presumed victim, to give _any_ benefit of the doubt to an accused, is right now being seen as enabling abuse and as being part of the poblem. The climate at this very precise movement is guilty unless proven innocent and zero tolerance. And no question there are likely very many guilty ones out there. But the presumption of guilt by some without knowing what the single accusation even is seems like a wee bit of an overcorrection in response. And male here but yes I have been touched at work without giving my express consent ahead of time. Coworkers and colleagues (more often females) touching my hand or shoulder while emphasizing a point. And when expressing condolences when my mom dies. Or at a meeting someone, who is actually superior to me in the organization, who I have not seen in a bit, giving me a hug and a peck on the cheek. No, no flirting was involved. No it was not harassing me. Could I have been someone to whom any touch was offensive? Sure. I’m not but I could have been. As to the “don’t touch” admonition … Physical touch is NOT a bad thing and creating a world in which it must be completely avoided without explicit consent, in which any touch is potentially to be viewed as assault, in which you simply would never dare touch outside of an intimate relationship … would be a very bad result. Human touch is important. It is a normal part of communication and part of how we express empathy. If I was sharing something sad with a coworker their touching my hand or my shoulder would not be something that should require explicit permission given to do. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/39 "2017-11-30T02:24:32Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > To question any presumed victim, to give _any_ benefit of the doubt to an accused, is right now being seen as enabling abuse and as being part of the poblem. Yes. > [@DSeid](#): > > Human touch is important. It is a normal part of communication and part of how we express empathy. If I was sharing something sad with a coworker their touching my hand or my shoulder would not be something that should require explicit permission given to do. Horse pucky. I don’t touch people at work, nor do they touch me. Most of them break things that I have to repair. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071/40 "2017-11-30T02:42:54Z")
Not everyone agrees with you and those who disagree are not all skeevy. You may, or may not, find [this New Yorker article](https://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/power-touch) of interest. > [@](#): > > … even if we have no conscious memory of a touch—a hand on the shoulder, say—we may be more likely to agree to a request, respond more (or less) positively to a person or product, or form closer bonds with someone. … > > … In one set of studies, out this month, touch was shown to boost the immune systems of people who had been exposed to the common cold. For two weeks, researchers monitored a little more than four hundred adults, asking them not just about their social interactions but about how many hugs they’d gotten over the course of each day. Then the subjects were quarantined in rooms on an isolated hotel floor, where the researchers proceeded to expose them to a cold virus. The virus was quite effective: seventy-eight per cent of subjects were infected, and just over thirty-one per cent showed signs of illness. But not everyone was equally susceptible. The people who had experienced more supportive social interactions battled infection more effectively and exhibited fewer signs of illness—and, when you tease apart the effects of social support and hugging, touch, in itself, accounted for thirty-two per cent of the reduction effect. … > > … Even as the evidence increases, we continue to undervalue touch. Recently, the Toronto District School Board warned its employees that “there is no safe touch when you work with children.” Many of our kids spend most of the day in a touch-free zone. We don’t mind getting a massage, but we fear embracing touch wholeheartedly, either because we think it’s dangerous, in the case of young children, or “touchy-feely,” in the case of adults. … Well and possibly “dangerous” in the case of adults as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-answer-to-your-question-is-garrison-keillor/803071.md?page=3)