The word is “cowardly”. They virtually always cave in to every Republican demand. Which is why I said that “determined” was a Republican virtue; not a Democratic one.
Why do you think it’s because they are cowards and not because of the reasons I mentioned? What reason do they have, besides being “cowardly” to cave to every Republican demand?
When someone comes up with one, I’d like to hear it.
Aren’t Arabs white? Aren’t folks in the Middle Eastern world (including Israel) mostly white? I know “whiteness” is a social construct and all, but this seems like a silly idea, that “white” Muslims aren’t really common. If you’re defining white to mean “blonde-haired, blue-eyed”, then yeah. But I’m having a hard time believing that people wouldn’t classify most if not all of these people as white.
If Obama was just the guy who worked in the mail room of your office, or heaven forbid, was being described on the local news as a crime suspect, you wouldn’t be saying “OMG, he’s HALF WHITE!!!” You and everyone else would just say “black guy.” There are plenty of “half-white” guys sitting in prison right now, who were described as “light-skinned black males” by witnesses. Who have “black male” in their record…on their birth certificate even.
A couple of us have brought it up on the board before, and I’ll do it again. Stop the madness and quit acting like ya’ll don’t know how the race game is played in America. White Americans are really something. When a black guy is doing something wrong, or if he’s just a regular guy, he’s just “black.” Negro or colored, pick your word of choice. He would have been a slave back in the day, he would have been peeing in the colored terlets back in the day…he would have been forced to attend segregated schools back in the day…and his “half-whiteness” wouldn’t have afforded him any breaks from that, particularly given his appearance. But as soon as that guy reaches the pinnacle of something, his pedigree is picked a part and suddenly he’s no longer really “black.” He’s damn-near-white, practically! Yeah, that’s rich. He’s as black as the black people who’ve been on this here continent for centuries and centuries, because we’ve all been cursed and blessed by the precious one-drop rule. And most importantly, that’s what he calls himself. So DROP THE HALF-WHITE SHIT. I’m sick of it, really.
Der Trihs, why have you not cut your cultural affinities with the Dems yet? I don’t understand why someone like you who thinks America as a politicla entitity is evil and that our democracy is a sham would want to mount a defense of them either for actions taken in the last decade or the 20th century as a whole. I find the whole “coward” meme used by the self styled progessives to brush aside the depravity and blood soaked policies of the blue faction to be utterly vile. I’m just surprised to see you using it too because I know you have a different POV than they do, so I don’t get it.
I don’t think the “one drop rule” is in play right now. I think it’s that if you’re a mix of black and white, if the black facial features are dominant in your face, you’re considered black, and if the white facial features are dominant, you’re considered white.
Invocation of the “one drop rule” in these cases seems unwarranted.
Wentworth Miller is part black but I don’t think anyone would think “black guy” if they saw him walking down the street. They might think he was part Hispanic, if they even wondered about his race at all.
I assumed that when I was responding to the question about whether Obama would be questioned about his religion had he been white, that the poster meant white in the european/anglo sense.
If he meant white like, white skinned middle eastener, then I’m pretty sure questions of his faith would persist.
There’s alot of people who have white skin but aren’t considered, nor do they consider themselves, “white.”
Originally Posted by Susanann
That is totally, and absolutely ridiculous. obama is…at least… half** WHITE**.
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No “I” wouldn’t, you are wrong…again, and from now on, speak for yourself.
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Wrong again again, and quit the “slave” jive attempt at sympathy. Obama’s ancestors were slaveOWNERS. Obama is a descendant of a slave OWNER. Obviously, you dont know anything about obama, and you dont know anything about obama’s history.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.obama02mar02,0,5765826.story
“According to the research, one of Obama’s great-great-great-great grandfathers, George Washington Overall, owned two slaves who were recorded in the 1850 census in Nelson County, Ky. The same records show that one of Obama’s great-great-great-great-great-grandmothers, Mary Duvall, also owned two slaves.”
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A black conservative would probably have an easier time than a black liberal. Blacks would be glad that one of theirs made it. White conservatives would feel safe with him. White liberals would give him the free pass they tend to give blacks anyway.
The Obama family, unlike the Palin family, is squeaky clean. Imagine the cries of alarm if one of Barack Obama’s daughters had been impregnated by some black stud who posed in the nude for Playgirl magazine. :eek:
I believe that whites, and especially white blue collar workers, have legitimate concerns about black crime, and about what happens to white working class neighborhoods and public schools when blacks move in.
If we could discuss these concerns candidly and in a mature fashion without shouting “Racist!” those who feel these concerns would be less likely to sublimate them into other issues.
We need a real dialogue on race, and not one where black social pathology is a forbidden topic.
I say this as one who voted for Barack Obama in 2008, and who certainly will again in 2012.
What the heck are you talking about?
barack hussein obama himself was conceived (and probably born) out of wedlock.
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Since race is a social issue (loosely based on some biological factors) our perceptions, labels and categorizations are remarkably fluid; one example is that our Social status helps shape our racial identity.
What “cultural affinities”? I vote Democrat simply to keep Republicans out of office. I’ve never voted for someone in my life, only against, I’ve never liked or approved of anyone I’ve voted for. Yes, I think the Democrats are better than the Republicans; but only because the Republicans are so utterly vile.
I
I believe that women, especially poor and working class women, have legitimate concerns about male crime, and about what happens to women’s lives when men barge in.
If we could discuss these concerns candidly and in a mature fashion without shouting “Sexist!” those who feel these concerns would be less likely to sublimate them into other issues.
We need a real dialogue on gender, and not one where male social pathology is a forbidden topic.
I say this as one who has voted has always voted for men, and who certainly will again in the future.
So you think people have imagined all those “nigger” signs? They didn’t say “half-nigger”, mind you, but “nigger.” Of course the one-drop rule is in play. And you know what? Both sides are clueless.
Liberal whites love to play up Obama’s whiteness too. On more than one occassion, I’ve had people “on my side” tell me how everyone’s stupid for focusing on Obama’s race, since he’s “half-white” after all. What exactly does that mean, in a political sense? Absolutely nothing. Obama is not a Wentworth Miller or a Mariah Carey. He cannot pass. So saying he’s “half-white” means nothing when it comes to racial politics.
Racists don’t care that he’s “half-white.” In fact, the fact that he’s a mongrel probably makes them even more irate because he’s evidence of what could happen to the country if we continue down this path of racial equality (what they may call “PC shit”.)
I know you’re Jewish, so I’ll make an analogy that might reasonate with you. Do you really think an anti-Semite distinguishes a secular Jew from a religious Jew? Do you they think they care if a Jewish person’s father is a gentile? Or that they aren’t the stereotypical New York-accented, Woody Allen-like, homosexual-leaning, big-nosed, communistic Jew? No, they don’t. They don’t care about these “subtleties”. All that matters is JEW. YOU IS A JEW. And the same thing goes for Obama. He looks black, identifies as black, he’s married to a black wife and has black kids. The fact that he was raised by white grandparents matters nil. THERE’S A BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!! END TIMES!!! 666!!! LET’S GRAB ALL THE GUNS IN CASE THOSE NIGGERS GET UPPITY!!!
No, I don’t think the majority of Tea Partiers are like this. I work with Tea Party folks and their sympathizers. I know most of them aren’t racist…at least not like this. Their racism may be little bit more subtle–like the type that assumes every black neighborhood is a bad one, even if the houses are well-kept, lawns nicely manicured, and the cars in the driveway are nice–but I’m not naive enough to think that liberals aren’t the same way. But I do question exactly where the Tea Party vitriol is coming from. A couple of years ago we got off a crazy ride with the Republicans. A fucking crazy ride! The way these people talk, you’d think those were the good old days. It seems more than partisan politics to me. It seems downright hateful. If it weren’t for the blatant evidence of racism coming from this group, the charges would be unwarranted. But alas, the evidence is blatant. How widespread it is, I don’t know. But it’s there and you don’t hear Bachman, Palin, or Beck speaking out against it. Until they do so, they will all carry with them the stink of the Racist. So they better get on the friendship train and at least talk of peace and brotherly love, instead of war and hate. That’s the only way the stink will go away.
No, no, you misunderstand me. I’m not saying the racism against Obama is imagined. However, you seem to be saying that people today in America consider anyone with any amount of black ancestry to be black. All I’m saying is I believe this to be totally untrue. If someone is 1/8 or 1/4 black and the white features dominate, this person would still be considered white. Even if everybody knew about the black ancestry. Now, I think that most people who are half black are considered black. Why? Because the black features usually dominate. Someone who is half black will still look “black.” Generally. There are probably exceptions to that.
Are you saying everyone observes the “one drop rule” today, or just that racists observe it? Because it seems like really you are saying the latter. Which I’d agree with.
I know I’m perpetuating an unfortunate sidetrack of the thread, but Argent, I feel I should respond to you here to say you’re incorrect. I’m biracial, actually multiracial, but for simplicity, let’s just say my mom’s black and my dad’s white. I’m very fair for a black person, and my father’s features dominate in me. However, under no circumstances have I ever been considered white at any point in my life. Now, perhaps things have changed from when I was a kid, but even now in my late 40s, I haven’t heard or seen biracial people being considered white unless there was, not just a dominance of white features, absolutely no visible trace of black features. Black features don’t have to dominate for the person to be considered black. Most biracial people don’t look like Wentworth Miller; I certainly don’t. I have weird hair and ambiguous features, and have been confused for anything from Hispanic to Arabic, but never, ever white. I suggest you take this from me, and people like me with first hand experience because we’ve lived it, and Monstro, although I don’t want to put words in her mouth, rather than what you believe to be the case without evidence.
That said, let’s get back to the OP.
You say you’re half black. And I think most people who are half black would be clearly identifiable as non-white. The skin and hair would give it away most, I think. But I’m referring to people who are maybe more than just half-black, maybe people with only distant black ancestry. Most people would not consider such people to be black. The only ones who would, would be the bigots who are hung up on race. But not most people.
monstro alleged that “white America” believes in the one drop rule. I think this is not true.
We (not you and I, but the “board” we) have talked this to death, so I’m afraid I’m going to sound like a broken record. I do not believe “black features” dominate. That is a social construct.
Look at me. I am not biracial like Obama; I have two black parents, both of whom had two black parents. Do I look mostly black to you? I’m not being hostile; I genuinely would like to know your opinion.
It is my personal opinion that no race “predominates” my features in any objective sense. Most people recongize that I’m a mixture of things–the components of which vary depending on what my hair looks like that day and the background of the person looking at me. Jewish baby-boomers have mistaken me for the product of hippy white Jewish-black love. Black people either think I’m a full sista or a mixed sista. People have suspected that I’ve got Phillipino or Chinese ancestry, or that I’m full-blooded Native American. Or some kind of Hispanic. But you know what? No one IRL has EVER mistaken me for a white person. Should I not get mistaken for white as well, if I am indeed as ambiguous looking as people say I am?
What does this tell me? That you pretty much have to look like an Aryan to be accepted as white,* but the bar is much lower for what constitutes non-white. There is no biological reasoning for why black features seem to predominate in “mulattos.” They objectively do not. But there are social reasons why this is the case. So they subjectively do.
I agree that looks matter more than pedigree now than they did back in the day. But I disagree with you that we aren’t still using the rubic of the “one-drop rule” when deciphering race. And I think we all use it. Some of us, like many black people, use it because we don’t think there’s anything wrong with being black, and if you’ve got some “black” blood in ya, then that automatically makes you family. Some of us use it because we still kind of function in a black-white dichotomy, where you’re either/or but not “and”, and just out of habit we lump the “and” into “black” because we’re used to “black” looking like a bunch of things, but “white” looking like a certain thing.. And then some of us use it out of pure racism, thinking that whiteness connotes purity. I think the majority is that middle group. I don’t think the middle group is necessarily racist; it’s just that we’ve all been inculcated in a racist society and can’t help but to use the definitions of race that a racist society developed.
*I think we should do a survey and ask how many people think “Arab” is a non-white ethnicity. My hypothesis is that most people, especially now, will say “non-white”. Even though most Arabs, to my untrained eye, are indistinguishable from all the other Mediterranian groups that most would readily call “white.”