# The “anti-Semitism” smear campaign against CAP and Media Matters rolls on **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097 "2012-01-20T03:34:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/21 "2012-01-20T22:18:55Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > A silly thing is that Israel is massively anti-semitic. “The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in southwestern Asia” This includes Palestinians and the Lebanese. > > So when someone cries like a baby when you criticize Israel for perfectly objectionable crimes against humanity you can respond, “Shut up you anti-semitic bigot!” Your post only makes sense if you completely ignore the historical invention and use of the term “anti-Semite”. The term was invented by a racist German philosopher named Wilhelm Mahler who specifically coined the term to refer to Jews whom he hated not Arabs, whom he didn’t. He was trying to create a “scientific” rationale for Judeophobia. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/22 "2012-01-20T22:32:13Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Thanks. The actual roll-call of posts ironically makes it clear that the author of the original article is doing exactly what he accuses his enemies of doing - making an absurd claim of bigotry. > > From the first sentence quoted in the OP from the original article: > > A review of the actual blog entries demonstrates that the names are just as likely to be “Clifton” and “Rosenburg” as “Jilani” and “Gahrib”. > > In short, one side is claiming anti-semitic smears and the other anti-Arab smears. Yawn. You base your objection on a very minor point and then yawn over the major point here, which is that an AIPAC operative has set up a systematic campaign to smear people who don’t fall in line with AIPAC’s vision of proper views on Israel as “anti-Semites.” I do not know if there is an argument to be made here except that it is a despicable, disgusting enterprise. Plus, I’d like us to stay out of a war with Iran if we possibly can, and the indication is, AIPAC would like to see one happen. After seeing the way the Bush Admin. was led around by the nose by neocons, I’d hate to see the same thing happen to the Obama Admin. wrt AIPAC. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/23 "2012-01-20T22:37:05Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > A silly thing is that Israel is massively anti-semitic. “The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in southwestern Asia” This includes Palestinians and the Lebanese. Is your ignorance willful or just risible? No, anti-Semitism means hatred of Jewish people. Attempting to play on some sort of technicality whereby there is a semitic language grouping is uber weaksauce. Anybody with a quarter of a clue knows not to try to obfuscate the issue by claiming that, anti-semitism means anything other than hatred of Jews. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/24 "2012-01-20T22:43:47Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Your post only makes sense if you completely ignore the historical invention and use of the term “anti-Semite”. > > The term was invented by a racist German philosopher named Wilhelm Mahler who specifically coined the term to refer to Jews whom he hated not Arabs, whom he didn’t. > > He was trying to create a “scientific” rationale for Judeophobia. Most Jews I know hate other Jews, or at least themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/25 "2012-01-20T22:45:11Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > You base your objection on a very minor point and then yawn over the major point here, which is that an AIPAC operative has set up a systematic campaign to smear people who don’t fall in line with AIPAC’s vision of proper views on Israel as “anti-Semites.” I do not know if there is an argument to be made here except that it is a despicable, disgusting enterprise. Plus, I’d like us to stay out of a war with Iran if we possibly can, and the indication is, AIPAC would like to see one happen. After seeing the way the Bush Admin. was led around by the nose by neocons, I’d hate to see the same thing happen to the Obama Admin. wrt AIPAC. Your post is implying that AIPAC was responsible for the Iraq War. To me that’s almost as absurd as blaming The Elders of Zion. Would you mind explaining your reasoning. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/26 "2012-01-20T22:48:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Most Jews I know hate other Jews, or at least themselves. Was that statement supposed to be funny or profound? I ask because it’s neither and doesn’t seem at all related to the post I put up. Perhaps you might want to reword it so it’s purpose and meaning can be understood. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/27 "2012-01-20T22:49:41Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > A silly thing is that Israel is massively anti-semitic. “The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in southwestern Asia” This includes Palestinians and the Lebanese. Once again, no, that’s not what the word means, because [it was invented](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Etymology_and_usage) to mean something else, something that only applies to Jews. (And defines “Jews” broadly, and by heredity, not faith.) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/28 "2012-01-20T22:51:32Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Your post is implying that AIPAC was responsible for the Iraq War. > > To me that’s almost as absurd as blaming The Elders of Zion. > > Would you mind explaining your reasoning. > > Thanks I implied no such thing. I said neocons, an entirely different group, specifically the neocons associate with the Project for A New American Century, led the Bush Admin. around by the nose wrt to the war with Iraq (granted, Rumsfeld and Cheney were members of PNAC, so they were kinda leading themselves by the nose). AIPAC is the official lobbying group for Israel, an entirely different group. I didn’t like the war with Iraq, I don’t like the prospect for a war with Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/29 "2012-01-20T22:54:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Once again, no, that’s not what the word means, because [it was invented](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#Etymology_and_usage) to mean something else, something that only applies to Jews. (And defines “Jews” broadly, and by heredity, not faith.) “The term anti-Semitic has been used on occasion to include bigotry against other Semitic-language peoples such as Arabs, but such usage is not widely accepted.” “Not widely” and “not usable as” are not the same thing. Besides, humor, get some. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/30 "2012-01-20T22:55:50Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I implied no such thing. I said neocons, an entirely different group, specifically the neocons associate with the Project for A New American Century, led the Bush Admin. around by the nose wrt to the war with Iraq (granted, Rumsfeld and Cheney were members of PNAC, so they were kinda leading themselves by the nose). AIPAC is the official lobbying group for Israel, an entirely different group. I didn’t like the war with Iraq, I don’t like the prospect for a war with Iran. Who were these “neocons” and can you show me examples of them “leading Cheney and Rumsfeld along by the nose”? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/31 "2012-01-20T22:57:38Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Who were these “neocons” and can you show me examples of them “leading Cheney and Rumsfeld along by the nose”? > > Thanks I rather envision Cheney at the other end of most leashes. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/32 "2012-01-20T22:57:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Your post is implying that AIPAC was responsible for the Iraq War. > > To me that’s almost as absurd as blaming The Elders of Zion. > > Would you mind explaining your reasoning. > > Thanks His post didn’t imply anything of the sort. He said neocons led Bush to the Iraq war, and that he’d hate for the AIPAC to similarly lead Obama to an Iran war, not that the AIPAC were the same neocons that led Bush into war. ETA: Never mind, I see he already defended himself ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/33 "2012-01-20T23:08:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > You base your objection on a very minor point and then yawn over the major point here, which is that an AIPAC operative has set up a systematic campaign to smear people who don’t fall in line with AIPAC’s vision of proper views on Israel as “anti-Semites.” I do not know if there is an argument to be made here except that it is a despicable, disgusting enterprise. Plus, I’d like us to stay out of a war with Iran if we possibly can, and the indication is, AIPAC would like to see one happen. After seeing the way the Bush Admin. was led around by the nose by neocons, I’d hate to see the same thing happen to the Obama Admin. wrt AIPAC. Can you produce some evidence showing that AIPAC is pushing for war with Iran. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/34 "2012-01-21T00:12:30Z")
The idea that bribes from AIPAC are the reason for the US Congress’s (stupid, damaging, and long past its welcome) support for Israel simply isn’t true, so it’s legitimate to ask whether the image of the Jew in the shadows damaging his host country’s interests with his bags of gold just miiiiight be a teeeeensy bit anti-Semitic. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/35 "2012-01-21T02:53:45Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > A silly thing is that Israel is massively anti-semitic. “The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in southwestern Asia” This includes Palestinians and the Lebanese. > > So when someone cries like a baby when you criticize Israel for perfectly objectionable crimes against humanity you can respond, “Shut up you anti-semitic bigot!” > [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > “The term anti-Semitic has been used on occasion to include bigotry against other Semitic-language peoples such as Arabs, but such usage is not widely accepted.” > > “Not widely” and “not usable as” are not the same thing. Besides, humor, get some. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Most Jews I know hate other Jews, or at least themselves. These posts look mostly like threadshitting. If you don’t want to participate in the thread, then don’t post to it rather than making off-the-wall nonsense posts that try to play semantic games or rehash old Woody Allen jokes. As to “getting humor,” none was presented to “get.” [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/36 "2012-01-21T06:02:36Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Who were these “neocons” and can you show me examples of them “leading Cheney and Rumsfeld along by the nose”? > > Thanks Cheney and Rumsfeld WERE PNAC members. [Here’s some reading to get you caught up on those rascals.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC) However, it is not germane to the main topic of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/37 "2012-01-21T06:05:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Can you produce some evidence showing that AIPAC is pushing for war with Iran. > > Thanks the article linked to in the OP has many referenced to AIPAC’s line on Israel being pro-war with Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/38 "2012-01-21T06:07:46Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > The idea that bribes from AIPAC are the reason for the US Congress’s (stupid, damaging, and long past its welcome) support for Israel simply isn’t true, so it’s legitimate to ask whether the image of the Jew in the shadows damaging his host country’s interests with his bags of gold just miiiiight be a teeeeensy bit anti-Semitic. Wasn’t the topic of the OP, and trotting out the “anti-Semitic” card would probably not be your best move here. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/39 "2012-01-21T06:25:40Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Cheney and Rumsfeld WERE PNAC members. [Here’s some reading to get you caught up on those rascals.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC) However, it is not germane to the main topic of this thread. Huh? Your post makes no sense. You claimed that Cheney and Rumsfeld were “led around by the nose” by the “neocons”. Please give us the names of some of these neocons and examples or evidence of how the “led Cheney and Rumsfeld around by the nose”. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097/40 "2012-01-21T06:27:09Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > the article linked to in the OP has many referenced to AIPAC’s line on Israel being pro-war with Iran. That doesn’t strike me as a terribly compelling answer. Please list me some evidence of “AIPAC” pushing for a war with Iran? I ask because it’s especially important to me since I have family in Iran. Thanks [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-anti-semitism-smear-campaign-against-cap-and-media-matters-rolls-on/610097.md?page=3)