# The apotheosis of American cooking **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229 "2012-12-26T22:18:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/81 "2012-12-27T21:42:32Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Swapping the vinegar and adding herbs is, yes, but I maintain that when you have a jar of mayonnaise and a can of SCM and a cup of sugar AND a cup of vinegar, you’ve lost everything. The SCM can go right out because the mayo provides a creamy mouthfeel and the sugar provides the sweetness. A tbsp or so each of vinegar and sugar adds tang and sweet without overpowering the flavor of the veggies and half a cup of mayo coats everything nicely without losing the crispness of the veggies. I don’t think that it’s really all that different, just not gaggingly sweet. But you are completely changing the recipe, removing all the craziness and making it a reasonable recipe, and then arguing that the recipe seems reasonable. 😕 Of course it’s reasonable, once you remove all the stupidity. You’ve fundamentally changed the recipe. Your version may have similar elements, may be based on the overall result, but is not any way the same recipe, and does not in any way justify the original. It is the original that we are mocking, not some alternate version that uses reasonable quantities of ingredients and a balanced approach. Proof in the pudding: you just said “just not gaggingly sweet”. Except that is the point of the original recipe - it is gaggingly sweet. To get rid of that is to fundamentally change the recipe. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/82 "2012-12-27T22:01:25Z")
Meh. I think it’s like looking at a landscape through a dirty window. Everything’s muted and muddy. Cleaning the window doesn’t fundamentally change the landscape, it just makes it easier to see. All the flavors are there, I’m just fixing how strongly they come through. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/83 "2012-12-27T22:14:39Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Meh. I think it’s like looking at a landscape through a dirty window. Everything’s muted and muddy. Cleaning the window doesn’t fundamentally change the landscape, it just makes it easier to see. All the flavors are there, I’m just fixing how strongly they come through. You’ve made it an everyday, run-of-the-mill pasta salad. It’s a bit like saying an Imperial IPA is the same as an amber ale, as long as you scale back all the hops and the malt, or that a Chicago style pizza is the same as thin crust New York pizza, if you scale back the ingredients. They’re all fundamentally different recipes, and that’s not even cutting out ingredients, like the perplexing inclusion of sweetened condensed milk in Sara’s Salad. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/84 "2012-12-27T22:24:28Z")
What’s wrong with pasta salad? I mean, I’m not big on it because I’m not really into pasta on the whole but the recipe wasn’t exactly spectacular to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/85 "2012-12-27T23:31:31Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What’s wrong with pasta salad? I mean, I’m not big on it because I’m not really into pasta on the whole but the recipe wasn’t exactly spectacular to begin with. Nothing is wrong with pasta salad. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/86 "2012-12-27T23:44:25Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Your mother is cordially invited to try that on my sister when she was 8 years old and see how effective it is. She grew up in the depression and worked two jobs, and had no patience with picky kids. You either ate what was served or you could go make a peanut butter sandwich. Or go hungry. An empty belly will overcome obstinance pretty much every time. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/87 "2012-12-27T23:47:23Z")
My son’s going through a cream of whatever phase. He’s still learning to cook and feed himself, so this is perfectly acceptable. He starts by finding some pasta or rice, cream of something soup, whatever vegetables are about, and canned chicken or some bacon. He then generally goes insane with the seasonings, but he’s experimenting and learning and eating the results so no problem. The issue would be if he stopped progressing on the learning to cook ladder and stayed stuck on processed stuff. This is the challenge, and we’re in the midwest, so I take it seriously. I know way too many people who regularly prepare meals out of cans and boxes and lacking in anything flavorful or fresh or resembling cooking. But as a beginners tool or for something quick and easy, cream of whatever is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/88 "2012-12-28T00:05:42Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The recipe in the OP is functionally no different than lasagna. Tomato sauce, cheese, and carbs. Big whoop. > > Yeah, a lot of recipes call for cream of soups and pillsbury dinner rolls. Speaking as someone who has made the campbells enchiladas and a roast chicken, the enchiladas are a fuckton less work and are more appealing to picky children who refuse to eat anything they think has mushrooms or onions in it. Serve it up with a side of veggies and it’s a perfectly serviceable meal. The carbs in that recipe (Pillsbury rolls and Doritos) are 20-25% fat. Lasagne sheets have 2% fat. The rolls and Doritos add 150mg of sodium per oz (combined). Pasta has less than 10mg. They are not functionally the same to your body at all. And they taste completely different, so not functionally the same to your tastebuds either. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/89 "2012-12-28T00:07:47Z")
I thought T-bone steak soup was a joke. It’s not. ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/90 "2012-12-28T00:30:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Lest you think it’s just Americans who have weird casseroles, I present you with [the Flying Jacob](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Jacob), brainchild of a crazy Swede. 🙂 Apparently, it’s a “classic Swedish dish,” but I can’t confirm or deny. Oh, barf, this is beyond disgusting. Chicken, bananas and peanuts and bacon? I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/91 "2012-12-28T00:35:28Z")
> [@phall0106](#): > > Oh, barf, this is beyond disgusting. Chicken, bananas and peanuts and bacon? I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. except we have more than one person in this thread who would totally try it or make it. Probably because it’s Swedish. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/92 "2012-12-28T00:40:49Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What’s wrong with pasta salad? I mean, I’m not big on it because I’m not really into pasta on the whole but the recipe wasn’t exactly spectacular to begin with. When it comes right down to it, there’s nothing wrong with eating anything, is there? Even Sara’s pasta salad would be OK to try at a pot luck or on a whim. Hell, throw some marshmallows and chocolate chips into it and go nuts. (Mmmmm, nuts.) The real problem obviously lies with diet as a lifestyle. Having a Big Mac meal once a month is not going to kill you. It’s all about balance. I’ll eat just about anything, but there’s a lot of days where I’ll have no meat at all. Sometimes on weekends I don’t eat till supper time. Sometimes on work days I’ll have a late lunch and only have a small snack for supper. It’s the overall diet over weeks and months that needs to be considered, not what you decided to gorge on for supper today. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/93 "2012-12-28T00:43:23Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > except we have more than one person in this thread who would totally try it or make it. Probably because it’s Swedish. Nope, because my husband thought it sounded funny and possibly good. (Did someone piss in your all-American Wheaties this morning?) ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/94 "2012-12-28T02:08:14Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I posted the link to my friend’s Facebook page, asking about it, and my husband saw it and said he thought it looked good in a “Hawaiian pizza” fashion. So I might, in fact, end up making it just to see what it’s like. But I’m really glad to be a vegetarian right now. Said friend has responded, saying it’s very Seventies, pretty good, and that Hawaiian pizza isn’t a bad comparison. He also linked what he thinks is a good English-language recipe: [Flying Jacob (Flygande Jakob), classic Swedish dish - Tummyrumble](http://tummyrumble.hultberg.org/2005/11/recipe_sharing_.html) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/95 "2012-12-28T02:28:04Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > An empty belly will overcome obstinance pretty much every time. _shrug_ You’re welcome to think what you like. My parents certainly thought hunger would win out. It didn’t appear to, and you can only pull the “eat this and nothing else” routine for so many days. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/96 "2012-12-28T02:46:51Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > When it comes right down to it, there’s nothing wrong with eating anything, is there? Even Sara’s pasta salad would be OK to try at a pot luck or on a whim. Hell, throw some marshmallows and chocolate chips into it and go nuts. (Mmmmm, nuts.) > > The real problem obviously lies with diet as a lifestyle. Having a Big Mac meal once a month is not going to kill you. It’s all about balance. I’ll eat just about anything, but there’s a lot of days where I’ll have no meat at all. Sometimes on weekends I don’t eat till supper time. Sometimes on work days I’ll have a late lunch and only have a small snack for supper. > > It’s the overall diet over weeks and months that needs to be considered, not what you decided to gorge on for supper today. I am so with you on everything you said, except for those first four sentences. 😃 As to the rest insofar as carbs, salt content, fat content, etc. all I have to say is this (not directed at you, **Leaffan** ): Tomorrow, it will be porkchops, I believe. I’m thinking sprinkled with brown sugar, layered with onion and some lemon slices and some ketchup kind of “smothering” them. Baked. Husband likes that - a lot. He also likes Velveeta Shells and Cheese with it too, though, so what the hell - I will do it. There can be a middle ground between store bought processed and homemade - I can’t duplicate his Shells and Cheese - and why would I try? For $2 on sale I can get a box. So it has preservatives - this is a man that LIVED the drug crazed sixties - and I know for a fact he did because he can’t **remember** them - he should worry about preservatives? 😃 I’ll do him some roasted broccoli with parmesan and lemon to go with it. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/97 "2012-12-28T03:03:39Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > _shrug_ You’re welcome to think what you like. My parents certainly thought hunger would win out. It didn’t appear to, and you can only pull the “eat this and nothing else” routine for so many days. As the father of an extremely picky eater, I’m on your side. My daughter will not eat and will in fact starve rather than eating what is present or available. She’ll go to bed hungry and we’ll get a call from the school the next day that she’s sick and lightheaded. She won’t eat. Lots of stuff available. She won’t eat. I wish the rest of you could grasp this. It isn’t fun. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/98 "2012-12-28T03:10:38Z")
> [@phall0106](#): > > Oh, barf, this is beyond disgusting. Chicken, bananas and peanuts and bacon? I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. OK. That settles it. Unless I get distracted, I’m making this tomorrow. I wanted to make it today, but had a bunch of errands to run and didn’t have time for it. I’ll let you know how it goes. The only thing that throws me off there is the bananas. Everything else makes some bit of sense. My instinct would be to use plantains, but I want to do it as close to the original as possible. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/99 "2012-12-28T03:16:44Z")
> [@phall0106](#): > > Oh, barf, this is beyond disgusting. Chicken, bananas and peanuts and bacon? I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. OK. Let me break this down slightly and move it to the pacific or the carribean. Chicken [I prefer dark meat, but whatever] cut into 1 inch cubes. Plantain, cut into similar sized chunks. 1 strip bacon per person, call it 3 or 4 handful of peanuts. Saute bacon til crunchy. Remove and reserve Saute an onion cut into fine chunks and minced garlic in bacon fat until translucent. Toss in chicken and plantain chunks and saute briefly. Add enough chicken stock to cover, set to simmer until chicken is done, and the plantain has started to dissolve. Onion and garlic may have dissolved. Taste, add salt and pepper to taste, add sricha or tabasco sauce to taste, add half a cup of coconut or dairy cream and simmer til heated through. Serve garnished with chopped peanuts and crumbled bacon. [or cook plantains, serve as a side dish to chicken cooked with peanuts african style. I love me some properly made fried plantain chips…] ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229/100 "2012-12-28T03:17:29Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > OK. That settles it. Unless I get distracted, I’m making this tomorrow. I wanted to make it today, but had a bunch of errands to run and didn’t have time for it. I’ll let you know how it goes. The only thing that throws me off there is the bananas. Everything else makes some bit of sense. My instinct would be to use plantains, but I want to do it as close to the original as possible. Yeah, I need to find Heinz chili sauce (as pictured in that awesome “cooking” video), but I’m going to give it a shot as well and will get **Shoujin** ’s evaluation of it. Since I only have brown rice, I don’t want to risk it not getting cooked in time, so maybe I’ll use the “traditional” method (also shown in the video) and make the rice on the side. If I can’t make it tomorrow night I’m out of luck until Monday, as I’m going out of town - late Christmas celebration with my side of the family and I don’t really want to inflict a mystery dish on them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apotheosis-of-american-cooking/645229.md?page=6)