# The appeal of starbucks **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** coffee\ **Created:** [April 3, 2023, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085 "2023-04-03T13:14:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/21 "2023-04-03T15:35:38Z")
That assumes there are any mom and pop shops that serve espresso - and in a lot of places there aren’t. Right now my choices for espresso when I’m not in my house are Starbucks, Starbucks in a supermarket, Dunkin or I can drive around hoping I find an Italian cafe or maybe a bakery . And Dunkin is no better than Starbucks. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/22 "2023-04-03T16:19:25Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The only places that seem to significantly undercut Starbucks are other chains, like Nero (might be British only). There is, or was when I still worked there, a Nero coffee place in downtown Boston. I never understood the thinking of naming one’s shop after one of the most despicable murderers in history, but there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/23 "2023-04-03T16:24:14Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > That reminds me, before Starbuck’s “coffee shop” referred to something completely different. It was a small restaurant that was similar to a lunchonette or diner. No espresso drinks Indeed. TV is actually an interesting reflection of this. Seinfeld debuts in 1989 and their coffee shop is Tom’s Restaurant, which is a full sit-down diner. Three years later in 1992, Starbucks has its IPO. The next year, Frazier debuts on TV, prominently featuring an independent Seattle coffee shop (“Cafe Nervosa” as I recall) as a location. To most of America if they had ever seen a coffee shop, it looked like a Starbucks, which was based in Seattle. In 1993, Starbucks opened its first New York location. The next year, Friends debuted with its own Central Perk location. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > NYC and some towns in NJ had actual coffee shops. Starbucks did knock a lot of these out. But they also had a lot after Starbucks came. I don’t know about anything post-pandemic, but for a long time there were many more independent coffee shops in Manhattan post-Starbucks than pre-Starbucks. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/24 "2023-04-03T16:26:44Z")
Not to my recollection, but as I am basically a Jersey tourist to the city, I’ll take your word my recollections are off. I haven’t been to NYC since pandemic started, that is odd. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/25 "2023-04-03T16:30:34Z")
There _are_ chains which create the harshest possible environment with uncomfortable seating, seemingly in order to make sure customers don’t linger. Chipotle is one example. On the occasions I’ve stopped at Starbucks, it’s always been at a venue attached to Barnes & Noble, where I can read a bit, maybe look at my phone, have a small black coffee and a cookie. Never had a Super Venti Pumpkin Froth Latte or suchlike. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/26 "2023-04-03T16:46:31Z")
Agreed, newer Starbucks and renovated ones have been reducing seating space, removing couches and low coffee tables, adding narrow high hard chairs, trading space for retail displays, and turning into noisy food/drink counters. All of this is countering (deliberately IMO) the appeal of a work or social space where people would hang out with their laptops or get work done while sipping a drink. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/27 "2023-04-03T17:06:45Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > [@NinthAcolyte](#): > > > > Maybe I just have a particularly picky butt?! > > I’ve been secretly replacing the regular chairs in Starbucks with rock hard, ergonomically dysfunctional IKEA chairs and secretly filming people with hidden cameras. Let’s see if people notice > > Stranger ISWYDT. “I can’t believe it’s not Chippendale!” ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/28 "2023-04-03T17:10:16Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I dislike the way they drove small coffee shops under I think the notion that a business has failed because another business is successful is a fallacy. Small businesses go under all the time for many reasons, and competition is just one factor. As for Starbucks in particular, I really like Pike Place roast. I make it at home every morning, in fact. So if want coffee and there’s a Starbucks around, I know I’m going to get a cup of coffee that I like, at the very least. Maybe I’ll get an occasional mocha or Frappuccino if I want to treat myself. I’ve tried frozen coffee drinks elsewhere and none are as good to me. ---
**Author:** ![adhemar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@adhemar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhemar)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/29 "2023-04-03T20:20:32Z")
I drink unsweet iced tea and it is hard to find decent tea most places. Especially with a drive through. I also like the free wifi when I need a place to work while away form home/office. Starbucks is pretty consistent. We have a lot of local coffee shops where I live but I dont know if they serve iced tea that is good (fresh brewed) and I have been burned too often. Live is too short to drink bad tea. Sadly Starbucks has changed the brand of tea they use to brew, they now use thier Teavana black tea which has some flowerly flavoring that is not as good to me as before. It is passable but it is consistent. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/30 "2023-04-03T20:25:20Z")
In the beginning, Starbucks made pretty good coffee. It wasn’t as good as my at-home Kona, but it was close enough to make the local drive-thru an attractive option. Ever since they switched to “Pike’sPeak” or whatever it is as their standard, I only go in very rarely for a cheat-day frappe. I would never pay for that burnt brown water. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/31 "2023-04-03T20:28:30Z")
It’s a great way to have dessert several times a day and say to yourself “I’m drinking coffee!”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/32 "2023-04-03T20:51:01Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Ever since they switched to “Pike’sPeak” or whatever it is as their standard, I only go in very rarely for a cheat-day frappe. I would never pay for that burnt brown water. Huh? Pike’s Peak was their less burnt response to criticisms of their coffee tasting burnt. Their coffee used to taste burnt to me, but since Pikes Place it tastes reasonable. They also have a light roast on offer usually. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/33 "2023-04-03T20:55:48Z")
Yes, Pike’s tastes like a normal medium roast to me. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/34 "2023-04-03T21:01:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Chipotle is one example. The first (and last) time I went to a Chipotle, I thought I was in a prison chow line. Gad, it was depressing. Since the food was a slight notch below mediocre, they were in no danger of keeping me as a customer. I like strongly roasted coffee, so I’m fine with Starbucks. It doesn’t taste “burnt” to me. I think the last time I got something other than a drip was back when we had season tix to the L.A. Kings. If the Kings won, we’d stop at Starbucks, and I’d get a tall mocha (with whipped cream). Then, we’d go home to replay the tape of the game we’d just watched. Someone once recommended Dunkin’s coffee, but I found it bitter and weakish at the same time. Weird unpalatable combination. I’m old enough to be in the “coffee shop means a sitdown diner-ish place,” and the coffee at those places was universally awful. You’d just get the coffee to wash down your pancakes. Our favorite pancake place had horrible coffee. I swear they’d never empty the coffee urns They had a nice deal where they’d leave a 8-ish cup carafe on your table, so you didn’t have to wait for the usually running-her-feet-off waitress to get a refill. Sadly, the coffee in the carafe was swill. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/35 "2023-04-03T21:54:53Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > I’m old enough to be in the “coffee shop means a sitdown diner-ish place,” Me too, including remembering terrible coffee at them. But in the early days of specialty coffee shops there were a goodly number of baristas at boutique type places that could make one hell of a great espresso. I understand that in the beginning, Starbucks had staff that were even able to do that. Then business took off, processes were streamlined and automated, and most of those places (Starbucks included) began producing terrible espresso. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/36 "2023-04-03T21:59:08Z")
This brings back a memory. I was just watching the Joni Mitchell concert on PBS (the one with others singing her songs), and the first espresso I ever had was at the Troubadour when I saw Joni Mitchell. This was sometime between her first and second albums, so it was a loooooooong time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/37 "2023-04-03T22:00:10Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > the first espresso I ever had was at the Troubadour And how was it? This Teeming Millionth wants to know! ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/38 "2023-04-03T22:14:51Z")
I liked it, but I barely remember. It is when I realized I liked my coffee strong. But I have a better memory of the ice cream they’d serve in half a coconut shell. As a fairly unsophisticated kid at the time, I thought it was klassy. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/39 "2023-04-03T22:39:08Z")
I met the owner of a small chain of coffee places here on the Central Coast (CA) and I asked him what set his stores apart from Starbucks and he said “We removed all of the electrical outlets in the customer area.” You’re welcome to use their WiFi only as long as your battery lasts. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085/40 "2023-04-04T13:14:41Z")
That seems… non-ideal. Is the idea you get your coffee and go? Promote conversation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-appeal-of-starbucks/982085.md?page=3)