# The Apprentice, 10/21/04 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 20, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207 "2004-10-20T13:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/81 "2004-10-22T18:37:19Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Out of curiosity, is it just me or is Jenn M. as hot as hell? Not just you, man. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/82 "2004-10-22T22:25:14Z")
I had a different thought about Wes’s choices. I thought that there was a chance that The Donald might make them take the team of the people they sent away. Wes might have thought the same thing, so he sent a competent guy over there in case he got stuck with Apex. Whichever group Wes got stuck with, he knew he’d be getting a passel of incompetent women, so it might have been prudent to make sure there were a couple of competent guys on each team. Of course, that scenario doesn’t really fit the M.O. of the Apprentice. After all, if you are running the business, you do get to choose who will be working for you, so letting the PM’s keep who they chose does make sense. So, maybe it was a silly thought, but it’s what I was thinking at the time. Re: Ivana. It did make sense for Jenn M. to keep her. She is ridiculous and whiny, and thoroughly hate-able, but she actually seems to be reasonably competent when it comes to executing tasks. Elizabeth also seems reasonably competent, at least compared to Maria, Stacy, and Sandy. I’m starting to get a sense of why Sandy isn’t valued–It’s seeming more and more like she just doesn’t bring any ideas or creativity to the table. And maybe she’s really not that intelligent or insightful either. While it’s pretty impressive that she’s run her own businesses from such a young age, they’re not the sort of businesses that necessarily require a lot of thinking outside the box, so to speak. And I think the comparison of Kevin to Kwame is apt. They both seem like solid and competent guys who lack some necessary spark needed to be great. Kwame was too afraid of confrontation and unwilling to seize control. That’s not true of Kevin, but he does seem to be lacking _something_. Any thoughts? But it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Kevin start to distinguish himself and end up winning. And I’d think he’d have a great chance at a second place finish, at least except that there’s no way that the powers that be are going to let the black guy finish second in both seasons. Could you imagine the articles that would be written? So, he’s either going to win, or be third or below. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/83 "2004-10-22T22:33:55Z")
> [@Green Bean](#): > > And I think the comparison of Kevin to Kwame is apt. They both seem like solid and competent guys who lack some necessary spark needed to be great. Kwame was too afraid of confrontation and unwilling to seize control. That’s not true of Kevin, but he does seem to be lacking _something_. Yeah, air-time. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/84 "2004-10-22T23:50:46Z")
> [@Green Bean](#): > > But it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Kevin start to distinguish himself and end up winning. And I’d think he’d have a great chance at a second place finish, at least except that there’s no way that the powers that be are going to let the black guy finish second in both seasons. Could you imagine the articles that would be written? So, he’s either going to win, or be third or below. Unless Jenn M won. If Kevin came in second to Wes, then yes I can see the slam pieces that would be written. If he came in second to a female, white or not, I don’t think there’d be as much of a backlash. A DJ on the radio today was talking about how happy he was that Stacy was fired last night and swore he heard the neighborhood cheering. Hell, I know I was cheering. Easily the most deserved firing since Omarosa. I just hope she doesn’t get any of the residual benefits Omarosa got, I hate her way too much for that. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/85 "2004-10-23T22:04:04Z")
It’s occurred to me that an _Apprentice_ team without Stacy is like a fish without a bicycle. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/86 "2004-10-23T22:56:16Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > A DJ on the radio today was talking about how happy he was that Stacy was fired last night and swore he heard the neighborhood cheering. Hell, I know I was cheering. Easily the most deserved firing since Omarosa. I just hope she doesn’t get any of the residual benefits Omarosa got, I hate her way too much for that. Omarosa was way more charismatic, or maybe anti-charismatic is a better word, than Stacy. She was just a whiny, argumentative little kneebiter. She’s got nothing on Omarosa as a a villain. She was more like a stone in your shoe. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/87 "2004-10-24T04:25:17Z")
No second showing at all last week. Not even a single added line to the repeat this week. The withdrawal pains are vicious. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/88 "2004-10-24T13:43:47Z")
Yay! (I was out last night and forgot to set the VCR.) :smack: ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/89 "2004-10-24T16:46:58Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Yay! > > (I was out last night and forgot to set the VCR.) :smack: You, madam, are a rotten person. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/90 "2004-10-25T13:43:40Z")
How did the restructuring affect the traded players chances? Wouldn’t Jenn and Wes be evaluated on who they kept and traded? Talk about “knowing people!” Wouldn’t Raj take a step down in Trump’s eyes by being traded? Same with Kevin and the others? I still have two of the traded ones in my final four prediction: Raj Kelly Jennifer Kevin ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/91 "2004-10-25T14:10:12Z")
> [@watsonwil](#): > > How did the restructuring affect the traded players chances? > > Wouldn’t Jenn and Wes be evaluated on who they kept and traded? Talk about “knowing people!” I don’t think they’ll be evaluated directly based on their trades. Their teams’ performances will say it all. I think last week may be an indication of things to come. > [@](#): > > Wouldn’t Raj take a step down in Trump’s eyes by being traded? Same with Kevin and the others? I doubt it. I think it says more about Wes than it does about them. Their records speak for themselves. If Raj gets fired, it’ll be because of his weird, annoying personality more than his performance. That’s exactly what happened to Stacy; since no one could be more annoying than she is, I believe he’ll last a bit longer. > [@](#): > > I still have two of the traded ones in my final four prediction: > > Raj > Kelly > Jennifer > Kevin My list and yours are identical. Kelly got burned by Trump last week with the “I hate people who exaggerate” line, but I don’t know how seriously he meant that comment. I wonder to whom Trump will say, “What is missing with you?!?” on the next show, as indicated in the previews… ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207/92 "2004-10-25T17:16:51Z")
> [@watsonwil](#): > > How did the restructuring affect the traded players chances? > > Wouldn’t Jenn and Wes be evaluated on who they kept and traded? Talk about “knowing people!” > > Wouldn’t Raj take a step down in Trump’s eyes by being traded? Same with Kevin and the others? > > I still have two of the traded ones in my final four prediction: > > Raj > Kelly > Jennifer > Kevin Well, I doubt Jenn will get many points for ditching Maria, Stacy, and Sandy. Anybody would have gotten rid of Stacy, so that doesn’t make her stand out, and she could have done nearly as well picking the other two at random. The women, in case you hadn’t noticed, pretty much all suck. Wes probably won’t get a lot of points, either. Most of them would have ditched Chris because he’s an ass and really hasn’t contributed much of anything beyond teaching them to wait tables. Given Raj’s unpredictability, pomposity, and general annoying behavior the last few tasks, I think most of them would have ditched him, too. No real points for doing something anybody would have done, and certainly no points for ditching one of your strong, dependable, but less flashy players in favor of cannon fodder like poor Andy. As for taking a step down by being traded, it’s possible. If so, it’s certainly a recoverable step, provided you perform well both in tasks and the boardroom. I mean, look at Amy from last season. Everyone was stealing her from the other team at every opportunity, which really ratcheted her up in the Donald’s opinion. In the end, though, it didn’t matter a bit. She couldn’t handle herself in the interviews. Her current paychecks? They don’t say “Trump” anywhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-21-04/270207.md?page=4)