# The Apprentice, 10/7/04 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844 "2004-10-06T14:08:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/121 "2004-10-11T14:09:58Z")
Hear, hear! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/122 "2004-10-11T15:20:05Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > If I suck your dick will you allow me my own opinions? Again, do you really find this kind of sexual reference appropriate for Cafe Society? And to answer your question, of course you can have your own opinions, even without offering fellatio. But if you air those opinions in a public forum dedicated to discussion, you shouldn’t be surprised to find those opinions disagreed with. That’s particularly true when those opinions are very strident, as yours are here. > [@Green Bean](#): > > Dewey: I don’t know what your beef with Lib is, but if you dislike him so much, take him to the Pit. This thread is about The Apprentice. I don’t have a problem with **Lib**. I really don’t. Seriously. I take issue with the rather strident defense he’s proffered of The Donald in this thread, but that’s a quibble over the substance of his argument, not over **Lib** as a person. And I agree that this thread is about The Apprentice, which is why my comments have focused on the show and on current and past contestants. I’m not the one making skeevy gay sex references. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/123 "2004-10-11T16:00:59Z")
No – both of you, just cut it out. I don’t care who started it, who’s a bigger dick, or whose dick is bigger --stop it. This ceased being about the show a whole bunch of posts ago, and it’s not amusing for the rest of us. If either of you has anything else to say about the other, _ **say it in the Pit** _. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/124 "2004-10-11T16:15:14Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > No – both of you, just cut it out. I don’t care who started it, who’s a bigger dick, or whose dick is bigger --stop it. \*\*. Sometimes someone has to be the better\* man and just stop the pissing match. Don’t respond anymore to it and let it die. Besides, I’m disappointed nobody has responded to my possible hint in the spoiler box earlier. :: pouts :: \*I almost said “bigger man”; but that was too obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/125 "2004-10-11T16:17:05Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > No – both of you, just cut it out. I don’t care who started it, who’s a bigger dick, or whose dick is bigger --stop it. This ceased being about the show a whole bunch of posts ago, and it’s not amusing for the rest of us. If either of you has anything else to say about the other, _ **say it in the Pit** _. Thank you! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/126 "2004-10-11T16:50:04Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Besides, I’m disappointed nobody has responded to my possible hint in the spoiler box earlier. :: pouts :: Don’t pout, sweetie – it was a perfectly, uh, interesting theory. I can’t imagine why they’d do it, though. BTW – who are the two? Since I know I’ll be looking on Wednesday anyway… ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/127 "2004-10-11T17:04:56Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Besides, I’m disappointed nobody has responded to my possible hint in the spoiler box earlier. :: pouts :: Well, I for one didn’t read it, just in case you’re right. That’s why it’s _in_ a spoiler box, no? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/128 "2004-10-11T17:37:54Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > BTW – who are the two? Since I know I’ll be looking on Wednesday anyway… They’re all so fungible, I don’t remember now. I just remember it wasn’t Raj or Kevin, the only two who are different. I think it was Kelly and John; but it could have been Chris and/or Wes. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/129 "2004-10-11T17:39:23Z")
Oh, and yes, I did just learn that word in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/130 "2004-10-11T17:58:12Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Besides, I’m disappointed nobody has responded to my possible hint in the spoiler box earlier. :: pouts :: The TWOP message boards analyzed the hell out of the opening credits last year on much the same theory. Short answer: Mark Burnett likes to throw out red herrings. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/131 "2004-10-11T18:07:47Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Besides, I’m disappointed nobody has responded to my possible hint in the spoiler box earlier. :: pouts ::. Hey, man, nobody’s said a thing about my brilliant (imho) “The Donald is Annoyed” theory either. (Post #117) ☹ As far as your spoiler, I didn’t read it initially. I don’t like my reality TV shows to be spoiled. I did go read it after seeing Dewey’s comment, and I agree. Burnett knows that there folks out there who watch the shows over and over looking for clues, so he often throws in false clues. Sometimes he puts in real ones, too, but there is really no way of knowing which is which until the end. You can often guess who will be fired/voted out that night based on the editing of each individual episode, but I think Burnett does an excellent job of concealing the eventual winners. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/132 "2004-10-11T18:18:09Z")
> [@Green Bean](#): > > Hey, man, nobody’s said a thing about my brilliant (imho) “The Donald is Annoyed” theory either. (Post #117) ☹ It _is_ brilliant, and spot on. I agree with you. Props! When I agree with someone, I’m usually not inclined to post. **LilyoftheValley** , I admire your self-control. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/133 "2004-10-11T18:27:25Z")
I can’t imagine it’s that tough to determine who the two finalists are, seeing as how they’re constantly making public appearances during the show’s airing. Take for instance the show from a couple weeks ago where they were selling toothpaste, thousands of people must have seen that, and thus could determine which contestants had been fired up to that point. It’s not like Survivor where the contestants are relatively isolated; in Apprentice, they’re all over New York. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/134 "2004-10-11T18:39:42Z")
> [@Dewey Cheatem Undhow](#): > > The TWOP message boards analyzed the hell out of the opening credits last year on much the same theory. Short answer: Mark Burnett likes to throw out red herrings. That’s good. I’d rather not be spoiled; but now that I’ve noticed that thing, the one in the spoiler, it’s too obvious to ignore anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/135 "2004-10-11T18:42:17Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#): > > I can’t imagine it’s that tough to determine who the two finalists are, seeing as how they’re constantly making public appearances during the show’s airing. Take for instance the show from a couple weeks ago where they were selling toothpaste, thousands of people must have seen that, and thus could determine which contestants had been fired up to that point. > > It’s not like Survivor where the contestants are relatively isolated; in Apprentice, they’re all over New York. True, but an observer at those events wouldn’t know they were watching Donald’s Suckups; they’d just assume that, to use the Crest event as an example, they were watching regular ol’ P&G marketing droids. Since they keep the candidate’s identities secret until taping is finished, an average observer would have to connect the show with the event several months later, and would have to remember which contestants were there. Doable, sure, but not terribly likely. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/136 "2004-10-11T19:08:15Z")
Adding onto what **Dewey** said, it seems to me that last year the really public stuff was filmed early on when there were more contestants, and that makes it harder to reconstruct a mental roster in retrospect several months later. When it got down to just a few players, the tasks were more small scale and privatized (like renting out the Trump penthouse). They only had contact with a few people and those people may have been compensated to sign agreements stating that they would not reveal anything about their experience with the show. And don’t forget that the final task brought several ousted players back into the game…so you might remember a gang of contestants being at a golfing event but you wouldn’t necessarily know who the finalists were or realize that it was a _final_ task as opposed to something from the middle of the show. I suspect that part of the reason for bringing some players back for the final task may be to provide decoys in public and help to disguise the finalists. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/137 "2004-10-11T20:18:45Z")
Brings up a question – if you knew from the start who was going to win, would you still watch? I would. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/138 "2004-10-11T20:36:08Z")
I’m trying to remember how much visibility Bill had at this point last season – IIRC, a lot of the final six were pretty low-key during the first part of the season. I remember Kwame, of course, but he stood out as the only black male. Um, Nick and Amy were flirting … Troy was cute, so I remember him from pretty early on – but not Bill, I don’t think. I’m not sure we’ve necessarily seen a lot of the winner – or even the final four – yet. The obvious losers have provided so much drama that there’s no time in the hour for the quietly competent. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/139 "2004-10-11T21:20:29Z")
It’s almost something you have to do. If the early losers are to be featured at all, they have to be featured early. The first major thing I really remember about Bill from last year was his concern about the ethics of presenting Kwame as a celebrity. And that didn’t happen until week four or so. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844/140 "2004-10-11T23:30:23Z")
Regarding Homebrew’s spoiler: I just rewatched the credits. Faces that appeared in black and white were Jen C., Maria, John, and Kelly. Jen is already gone, and I don’t think Maria is long for this world. I’m not terribly fond of John either and don’t think he functions well under stress, so I don’t see him in the final 4 either. I think it’s a red herring. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-apprentice-10-7-04/267844.md?page=8)